Late Friday night, (well, late for those of us living on the east coast and are eight years old) Nissan, through Qualtrics – who bill themselves as “the industry-leading provider of online Survey Software solutions” did just that.
While the survey was several pages long, the focus was clearly on the consumer’s expectation of the warranty on the LEAF, and their perception of Nissan and the competition (namely Chevrolet and Toyota).
The survey zoned in on the preferences of the customer of whether or not to purchase or lease, and the opinion of the customer on 3 basic warranty coverages. 5 years/60,000 miles, 8 years/80,000 miles and 10 years/100,000 miles…and the willingness of LEAF purchasers to buy a extended warranty and how much. I am guessing that most would like the maximum ‘comes with’ warranty, with the least amount of cost to extend the warranty.
This preemptive census taking ahead of Nissan’s announcement on the LEAF’s battery warranty comes just as Chevrolet announced that the Volt will come standard with a 8 year/100,000 mile warranty (thanks to some government imposed minimums). Even at 8/100, many expected the Volt to qualify as a AT-PZEV, and with it, a 10 year/150,000 mile warranty.
If the survery is any indication of Nissan’s thoughts, it would seem they are resigned to giving at least a 5 year/60,000 mile warranty…which would be greater than the standard 3/36 bumper to bumper that comes with its other offerings, and they are wondering if that still will be enough to satisfy the public. Nissan goes so far as to even ask how this warranty on the LEAF would reflect on the image of the company as whole.
Because the LEAF is a ZEV (zero emission vehicle), Nissan is under no obligation to give any extended/long term warranty as regulators/CARB have no interest in emission free vehicles. Nissan has been quick to offer that they expect the LEAFs battery to still retain a 70-80% charge after 10 years in most instances…but that is a long way from a guarantee.
/your thoughts?
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I voted for 8/100 as standard warranty with the option to extend to 10 years since I keep my cars for that long. Can’t seem to get the idea of a 2012 RAV EV out of my head! Otherwise I might wait it out until 2012 and see what other manufacturers bring to the table.
GO EV!!!
Future LEAF Driver(Quote)
The statement “expect the LEAF’s battery to still retain a 70-80% charge after 10 years in most instances” is not very comforting. I would not consider a 5 year warranty unless gasoline prices skyrocketed. An 8/80,000 warranty would be the minimum for me otherwise (8/100,000 would be preferable). If Nissan could manage it through software (set for vehicle life at the dealer?), I would take a cut i range to, say, 80 miles in order to get the better warranty.
Also, what would the warranty terms be? Degrading to what percent of the original capacity would constitute a failure? For example, would a battery that provides a 50 mile range after 7 years of an 8 year warranty be considered failed under warranty terms?
Mike(Quote)
Well,
turning this statement around, it means
that it will be very inexpensive for Nissan to offer a 10-year warranty for 70-80%.
That is because Nissan has good information (we hope) to support Nissan’s claim that there will be few cases of failure over 10 years. Consequently, there will be even fewer warranty claims, because not every car (of the few that fail) will make a claim.
So that is good news for Nissan and for us —>, a 10-year warranty can be built-in by increasing the Leaf’s price by only a very tiny amount.
RB(Quote)
Just took the survey.
I guess I’m OK with 5/60000 and 20% loss max at the end of this time period. I expect that is what we are going to get anyway. The question really is about the extended warranty and how much you are willing to pay for it as I expect they will offer one. I think I said 500$ was a great deal, That 1750$ was getting close to the upper end and 2500$ was where I would say no. The other thing we don’t know is what the terms are for the warratny. I would rather see a battery replacement (update) program where at some point in time you get to upgrade to the latest and greatest whether or not your battery was worn out. I expect that in 5 years they will have 150 mile range packs and I would want to upgrade to one of these whether my pack was worn out or not.
Unfortunately they did not address this issue in the survey.
GeorgeS(Quote)
Where is Ford in this? Their Focus EV is said to be available a matter of months after the LEAF is launched. It appears to have the goods – reports following test drives of a Focus mule have been quite positive. Ford’s Transit Connect EV commercial van has a 5 yr/60K mi. warranty on its powertrain which I think includes the Azure battery. LG appears to be the battery supplier for the Focus EV. I’m not sure if it has an active thermal management system as I believe does the Transit battery.
stuart22(Quote)
I did the survey. I thought it was long, with some complicated questions about how likely I would be to buy with various warranty durations and how my commitment would change if the warranty changed. The hard part is thinking about the warranty in isolation from other factors. But I agree with the post, that the survey suggested 5-yr minimum and 10-yr maximum.
I was surprised that the survey translated 90% of battery capacity directly into 90 miles instead of 100, though that is logical.
RB(Quote)
I am happy to see that Nissan is doing the survey. By soliciting views, Nissan continues to show me that they are a company with integrity and cares about their image with their customers. It appears that Nissan realizes that the warranty length is a huge issue for them. If they pick the wrong warranty period, they will not meet their ultimate sales asperations. I find it hard to believe that they will not meet Volts warranty. It is an impossible task for them to explain why their warranty should be shorter. If Volt has a longer warranty, it will give the Volt and GM a better image than Nissan and the Leaf. If Nissan says the battery will last 10 years; and have 70 to 80% capacity, they should back it up with a 10 year warranty. Doing anything less will look like they are talking out of both sides of their mouth.
stanley
Stan Stein(Quote)
Just curious how you guys answered about the extended warranty. What’s it worth to you assuming the base warranty is 5/60000?????
GeorgeS(Quote)
Off the cuff I put down $250 a
Off the cuff I put down $250 a bargain, $1000 to be considered, above $2000 too high for consideration. With reflection I might think differently.
RB(Quote)
If this site had an editing function, I would clean up the garble in my previous post. Hint.
RB(Quote)
Yes RB,
I asked admin this AM to put the titles of the threads on the Forum main summary page. Is Statik administration??
I like your suggestion also.
GeorgeS(Quote)
Agree 100%.
Ike(Quote)
I didn’t look at the survey (don’t know what options I could pick from) but, ……..
I’m thinking a 8/100/80 would be reasonable.
8 years/100,000 miles/ 80 % battery capacity still available — i.e. if at any time before 8 years or 100,000 miles my original pack is not meeting 80% capacity then Nissan has to get me back up to 80% or better.
The extended warranty might be at an annual fee after year 8 on a “pro-rated” scale:
for example:
-year 9/110,000 — 80%
-year 10/120,000 — 75%
-year 11/130,000 — 70%
-year 12/140,000 — 65%
- for a “minimal” battery insurance annual fee ($350/yr?) , Nissan would guarantee those numbers and if you fall below they’ll get you back up to 80%
- allowing Nissan to return the car to 80% (vs. 100%/new) might provide a good outlet for Nissan to recycle cells salvaged from other repairs and keep prices down for the consumer
/just a babbling keyboard now, ask me tomorrow and I’ll probably have a completely different opinion :0
Carcus(Quote)
add,
IMO- Nissan will have to offer some sort of long term/pro-rated warranty/extended warranty (beyond the 6 year point for sure) if they want to sell mainstream — to those who aren’t part of the “cash flush early adopter crowd”.
Carcus(Quote)
Talk about being caught between a rock and a hard spot – besides wondering if they will match the Volt’s battery warranty, Nissan now has to be concerned that the Ford Focus EV is slated to be priced at thousands of dollars less than the LEAF.
stuart22(Quote)
Hey Stuart, what’s the price on the EV Focus? Please post a link…
GO EV!!!
FUTURE LEAF DRIVER(Quote)
They may be concerned about how many people, how often, go for quick charging their batteries. I expect that people who have access to a Level 3 charger will use it at every opportunity. Sometimes out of necessity, other times out of impatience even if not necessary.
“Nissan has been quick to offer that they expect the LEAFs battery to still retain a 70-80% charge after 10 years in most instances…but that is a long way from a guarantee.”
JEff(Quote)
Jeff, I live in North County San Diego. This area will have a lot of infrastructure installed within easy access of my home, along I-5. It will be comeforting to know that it will be available. However ,I do not intend on using it, except in an emergency. I plan on useing my level 2 home charger. Pluging it in between 11pm and 5 am when special lower electric rates are available. I do not want to use the level 3 unless I have to. As I do not want to negatively affect the life of the battery. I intend on useing the Leaf in every way I can to prolong battery life. I still want and feel we deserve an 8 year battery warranty based on the cost of the car and Nissan` statements that the battery should last 10 years. stanley
Stan Stein(Quote)
I’m not going to lie. I’m a little worried about the 5/60,000 warranty. Nissan has been claiming (for forever, it seems) that the batter should last 10yrs with 70-80% capacity left. Why does their warranty not match this claim? I like the survey, but I think If they want my money and future customers, they need to match (probably exceed) the volt’s warranty.
john(Quote)
I hear you, I agree with you, I will do the same. I think many people will. But I also think that many people will not. Many people will opt for the quickest charge they can get. In most of the discussions that I read about charging time I always see people wanting quick charging, worrying or complaining about the length of time charging takes, and rarely a mention about the adverse impact on battery life that goes with Level 3 charging.
I have no idea what percentage of people will charge like you and I, to preserve battery life, and what percentage of people will charge as fast as they can for the convenience. I have no idea how much of a penalty Level 3 charging incurrs, and how often Level 3 charging has to be done for the penalty to become significant.
I do know that if there’s a long warranty period on the battery that ignores the effects of excessive rapid charging, who’s going to care? Charge away as fast as possible at every opportunity since it’s Nissan that’s going to be paying the penalty. This has to be a factor in Nissan’s calculations.
JEff(Quote)
That claim has to be based on certain assumptions about charging. What are those assumptions? Are they optimistic or pessimistic? And how significantly is battery life going to deviate from the claim when a particular owner’s charging pattern deviates from the assumptions?
I suspect that the marketing folks feel the urge to present information that’s on the optimistic side, while the engineers have a better feel for how things can vary – something not easily explained to the general public. Meanwhile it’s the accountants and actuaries who have figure out how long a warranty period to offer.
JEff(Quote)
jeff, that’s something they should have figured out a long time ago since they claim 20+ years of research in battery tech. Asking people, most of whom, are limited in their understanding of electric cars, to pick what warranty they “feel” is acceptable seems a little strange to me. They have the engineers, the research, and the knowledge.
I’m just simply saying that 5/60,000 is low and needs to be higher to instill some consumer confidence in their product. Nissan will be making a mistake if this is the warranty they’re coming out with. I would also be 100% happy with 5/60,000 warranty, if the range was 250-300 miles per charge.
JOHN(Quote)
I agree, I think the engineers do know how quick charging affects the battery life. What nobody knows is how many owners are going to use quick charging how often. There’s undoubtedly a debate going on between the marketing folks and the accountants over that question.
If the final decision is a 5/60,000 warranty it’s an indication that either quick charging has a significant effect, a lot of owners are expected to use a lot of quick charging, or both.
If the final decision is, say, 10/100,000, it’s an indication that quick charging does not have a terribly significant impact, not too many owners are expected to use a lot of quick charging, or the company is willing to take the financial risk and the marketers have won the debate.
JEff(Quote)
The questionnaire made a very bad impression on me, the questions led me to believe that Nissan has little confidence in its battery. Unless there is a 100,000 mile warranty, I shall change my plan from buying to leasing a Leaf, if I get a Leaf at all. Although I really don’t want to wait, I may hold out buying, my preference, an electric car until BYD, Coda, and others are available.
I am disturbed that this late in the game, Nissan has not announced what the warranty is or even as I discovered fixed the lease price. I have no intention of buying or leasing a pig in a poke. Nissan should be more honest with its early adopters.
Desertstraw(Quote)