DoE Project Does Not Affect Priority; San Diegans Saddened

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Newsflash: Press Releases on the Internet (and in newspapers) can be wrong. San Diego and other DoE approved markets (are you listening LA?) will not receive their LEAFs faster than anyone else in the early delivery markets (California, Washington, Oregon, Arizona and Tennessee)

We here at Nissan-LEAF.net had dutifully passed along that bit of mis-information about people in San Diego receiving their LEAFs earlier than the rest of California here (albeit with a touch more sarcasm than most); and it probably would have just remained hanging out there…that is until a NLN reader (Stan Stein) asked if San Diego would be sharing its ‘first 1,000 LEAFs‘ with Los Angeles, now they(LA) had been added to the DoE free home charger initiative.

I told Stan I would look into it…then immediately went camping far north in the Canadian wilderness (it rained), then travelled to Detroit to catch a ball game (the Tigers lost), before landing back home and finally deciding to get off my lazy ‘patoot’ to do some research for him.

It turns out that the DoE program, while being a subset of Nissan’s first year volume, has about as much to do with the priority of receiving your new LEAFs as I do….which is nothing.

Mark Perry, who is a executive at Nissan, had this to say to Nissan-LEAF.net readers, “The DOE project involves 5 states and 5,700 LEAF owners. Puget Sound (Seattle), Oregon, CA (LA and SD) Arizona (Phoenix Tuscon) Tennessee (Nashville Chattanooga Knoxville).”

The “DOE (is) seeking a representative sample of owners to study charging behavior. there
are sample criteria ( buckets) to fill. So it won’t be the ” first come first serve” to participate in the study. “

Nissan (is) operating under first (the) to reserve first to order first delivered. So your reservation and order date will drive delivery date. Your reservation and order date is priority.”

Mark further adds that “…5,700 of those meeting the above location and sampling
criteria (of the 25,000 reservations Nissan plans to take) will become part of the DOE study…(provided) you meet the research criteria and agree to have data logger in your car to capture charging behavior.”

Sidenote: I now harbor no ill will to people living in San Diego, and will once again plan to visit Balboa Park when I am in the area next year

25 Responses

  1. GeorgeS says:

    Thx Statik,
    Any idea when they are going to start taking orders and how all that will work. Also, aren’t all early reservationists in early markets supposed to get a test drive. When that will happen.? I’d like to get a look at this car in person before I sign on the dotted line.

      (Quote)

  2. Todd Horst says:

    Off Topic- Can you do a post on the components of an ev, How green are they? I know lithium mining can get nasty. When I think of gas vehicles I think about not only how much they pollute but also to keep them running you need oil and antifreeze. As well as other toxic chemicals and components. Are EV’s themselves also better component wise, or just emission wise?

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  3. James says:

    First of all Yes!!!! I was hoping I was not going to get bumped because they added LA to the list.

    George – I posed that question to Nissan a few weeks ago and they said test drives will be available in the Phoenix area sometime in October. They said they will be sending us e-mail to register for the test drive.

    Todd – one of the major selling points for lithium is that it can be recycled. Unlike oil where it is burnt and has to be replaced by extracting fresh oil from the wells lithium can be recycled from an exhausted battery then re-used in a new battery.

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  4. GeorgeS says:

    First of all Yes!!!! I was hoping I was not going to get bumped because they added LA to the list.George – I posed that question to Nissan a few weeks ago and they said test drives will be available in the Phoenix area sometime in October. They said they will be sending us e-mail to register for the test drive.Todd – one of the major selling points for lithium is that it can be recycled. Unlike oil where it is burnt and has to be replaced by extracting fresh oil from the wells lithium can be recycled from an exhausted battery then re-used in a new battery.  

    James FYI re Ariz incentives:

    Off the Nissan website: Essentially NO license tax in AZ. Unfortunately I think we will have to pay sales tax which will be around 10% of sticker-ouch another 3200$.

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  5. vanuck says:

    I guess, is just the right thing to do…

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  6. Todd Horst says:

    Good point on the lithium. I knew that it could be recycled but needed reminded. Now I wonder what percentage can be recycled/ how effective the recycled lithium is. AKA I get a car, mileage gets to low, pull that battery to use as a house backup for 5 more years, no longer good at that, recycle dead battery, re-purposed into 10% of new battery?

    Also my original question wasn’t just battery centric. I know computer components contain mercury. I don’t know all the parts involved, I just want to know if we are shifting to other bad components.

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  7. James says:

    Yes, license fee on a $32,000 vehicle is about $350 per year. Also, different city’s have different tax percentages. I expect to pay 7.8% or $2496. Yes, ouch!

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  8. GeorgeS says:

    Yes, license fee on a $32,000 vehicle is about $350 per year. Also, different city’s have different tax percentages. I expect to pay 7.8% or $2496. Yes, ouch!  

    Does the 7.8% include the extra 1% the state just tagged on, and is it Phx tax or Mesa.

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  9. I may do a ditty or two on the upkeep/projected component maintenance on the ‘non common’ parts on the LEAF, in fact, I am quite sure there will be some as we get closer to actually owning the cars.
    .
    However (and even though I have partial ownership (really, really partial) in a couple lithium mining operations in SA), and have done a lot of reasearch on it/the process, I doubt you will see any detailed threads dedicated to it…unless it is a really slow news day/week/month, heeh. There is lots of good resources out on the web on it though.

    Off Topic- Can you do a post on the components of an ev, How green are they? I know lithium mining can get nasty. When I think of gas vehicles I think about not only how much they pollute but also to keep them running you need oil and antifreeze. As well as other toxic chemicals and components. Are EV’s themselves also better component wise, or just emission wise?  (Quote)

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  10. James says:

    George – Idk you could call your dealership and ask.

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  11. Rashiid Amul says:

    Does anyone know what the warranty is on the Leaf?
    Not just the battery, but the rest of the car?

      (Quote)

  12. GeorgeS says:

    George – Idk you could call your dealership and ask.  

    James,
    How I select my dealership will depend on the tax rates. For example, Mesa passed an extra 1% CITY tax and then the State came along and passed another 1% sales tax for the whole state. Also I believe Scottsdale has a higher combined tax than Phx. Where I buy my car may not be the same place as where I get it serviced. So, just to ask one more time, does the 7.8% tax you are paying include the 1% added state tax and what city is it for??–Thx GSB

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  13. GeorgeS says:

    George – Idk you could call your dealership and ask.  

    James and Turbo,
    I did some research and here are the total sales tax rates for Mesa, Phx, Scottsdale:
    Mesa=9.05
    Phx=9.3
    Scottsdale=8.95%
    So if you buy in Scottsdale you will save 112$ vs buying in Phx

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  14. Herm says:

    Lithium mining is very benign, they essentially scrape up dried up sea salt from playas and process it to concentrate and purify lithium carbonate. There is a famous video on the net showing the chairman of BYD taking a sip of the electrolyte of his lithium batteries.. its not poisonous or toxic. There really is no recycling of lithium cells yet, the components are so widely available that it has not paid to do so. Some of the cells that will be used in autos may have a life of 15-20 years so it will be a while.

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  15. James says:

    George – Chandler 8.8%

    AZ State Sales Tax %
    Maricopa County
    Apache Junction 9.5
    Avondale 9.8
    Carefree 10.3
    Cave Creek 10.3
    Chandler 8.8
    El Mirage 10.3
    Fountain Hills 9.9
    Gila Bend 10.3
    Gilbert 8.8
    Glendale 9.5
    Goodyear 9.8
    Guadalupe 10.3
    Litchfield Park 10.1
    Mesa 9.05
    Paradise Valley 8.95
    Peoria 9.1
    Phoenix 9.3
    Queen Creek 9.55
    Scottsdale 8.95
    Surprise 9.5
    Tempe 9.3
    Tolleson 9.8

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  16. Karl Olmstead says:

    Priority strictly driven by reservation date and order date, eh? Absolutely nothing to do with where we live? Sounds good to me. Statik, have you been able to find out for sure whether the date we pay for and get charger assessment (or get selected for a free one) has ANY effect on priority? Sounds like it probably does not. Especially now that Nissan has stated that you don’t even need to buy a charger.

    If it doesn’t, then we have one more race to run… order date. Hasn’t Nissan hinted that the “hand raisers” will proceed to next step of process in August? I’m surprised they haven’t encouraged us to talk to our dealers yet. August is almost here.

    -Karl

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  17. Stan Stein says:

    To the Arizona guys,George S, James, Turbo. Several States, on the purchase of cars, make you pay the community sales tax rate of the community you live in and not the rate of the dealer where you buy the car. I believe they do that to protect dealers. I do not know if Arizona does that.but I think you should check vs buy the Leaf

    James and Turbo,I did some research and here are the total sales tax rates for Mesa, Phx, Scottsdale:Mesa=9.05Phx=9.3Scottsdale=8.95%So if you buy in Scottsdale you will save 112$ vs buying in Phx  (Quote)

    from a dealer only because you believe you will pay a lower sales tax and then you get stuck with a higher rate anyway. stanley ( A saddened San Diegan) I am happy for you guys. It is only fair that the first to order receive the first cars

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  18. GeorgeS says:

    Priority strictly driven by reservation date and order date, eh?Absolutely nothing to do with where we live?Sounds good to me.Statik, have you been able to find out for sure whether the date we pay for and get charger assessment (or get selected for a free one) has ANY effect on priority?Sounds like it probably does not.Especially now that Nissan has stated that you don’t even need to buy a charger.If it doesn’t, then we have one more race to run… order date.Hasn’t Nissan hinted that the “hand raisers” will proceed to next step of process in August?I’m surprised they haven’t encouraged us to talk to our dealers yet.August is almost here.-Karl  

    Karl,
    Just my guess but if I were you and I really wanted a Leaf then get the assessment done. It shows on the Nissan website as if it is one of the steps in the process. It only costs 99$—cheap insurance,–GSB

      (Quote)

  19. GeorgeS says:

    James,
    So you are going w/ Power Nissan in Chandler?–GSB

      (Quote)

  20. JOHN says:

    off-topic,

    STATIK, I think it would be a good a idea to shine some light on the Federal EV tax credit. I’ve done some reading and I think people should be more informed on the subject. Assuming you purchased the Leaf before 12/31/10, you would get the credit on you tax return for this year. Otherwise, i would assume, you wouldn’t see that tax credit for over a year (if you decide to purchase, not lease) And though Nissan says it’s qualified for the tax credit, it’s not on the list according to the IRS. http://www.irs.gov/businesses/article/0,,id=214841,00.html

    I should have $6-7k saved up by December to put down on the car, so it wouldn’t be a “huge” deal to me if the credit wasn’t given to me at time of purchase, but it could be huge for others, if money is an issue.

      (Quote)

  21. Priority strictly driven by reservation date and order date, eh? Absolutely nothing to do with where we live? Sounds good to me. Statik, have you been able to find out for sure whether the date we pay for and get charger assessment (or get selected for a free one) has ANY effect on priority? Sounds like it probably does not. Especially now that Nissan has stated that you don’t even need to buy a charger.

    If it doesn’t, then we have one more race to run… order date. Hasn’t Nissan hinted that the “hand raisers” will proceed to next step of process in August? I’m surprised they haven’t encouraged us to talk to our dealers yet. August is almost here.

    -Karl  (Quote)

    .
    I actually have this straight from Nissan. Zero priority on paying for and getting charger assessment (or getting selected for a free one).
    .
    The way I understand it (with my Nissan executive decoder ring) is if you got your reservation in before your neighbour, you will get the opportunity first to order (regardless if you have a charger or not). If you do indeed pull the trigger faster than that neighbour, you get the car first…if he gets the jump on you while you are trying to make a decision/scrap up funds, then he gets it first.

      (Quote)

  22. the leaf seller says:

    Does anyone know what the warranty is on the Leaf?Not just the battery, but the rest of the car?  (Quote)

    3yr/36K mi Basic
    5yr/60K mi Power train & Battery
    3yr/36K FREE Roadside Assistant
    3 FREE Scheduled Maintenance: 12/15Kmi, 24/30K mi and 3/36K mi—All are inspections

      (Quote)

  23. Karl Olmstead says:

    George, I did get the assessment on July 5, but haven’t gotten the quote. Seventeen days, now. If, as Statik says, the purchase of the charger has zero impact on my position in line, I may forgo the $2.2K purchase. I could probably live with 20 hour recharge for a year or so, and then pick up a charger on eBay for $500 or less. Saving almost 10% of the price of the car really is a big deal. There appears to be a big advantage to getting a Leaf early; the federal tax credit and (maybe) the up-to-5K California rebate (with only $4.1 million in the kitty). It now appears that there is not a lot of reason to buy the charger early.

    AND, inviting the county building inspector to look at my shop wiring (where the charger will connect) is probably a bad idea, since it wasn’t permitted. Meets code, but undocumented. I had a recent bad experience with one of the local inspectors regarding another project. If I happened to get the same inspector, he probably wouldn’t be much fun. Actually, he’d have a lot of fun. I wouldn’t.

    -Karl

      (Quote)

  24. James says:

    There is a federal tax credit on the charger.

    An income tax credit equal to 50% of the cost of electric vehicle recharging equipment capped at $2,000 for individuals and $50,000 for businesses.

      (Quote)

  25. Karl Olmstead says:

    Good point, James. $1200 is a lot better than $2200. I have a hard time keeping on top of all the rebates. Especially those that expire.

    -Karl

      (Quote)

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