Foreshadowed last weekend, I give you all the random Nissan LEAF news that either didn’t make the cut and/or were overshadowed by the ‘Nissan-Chevy Press Release Showdown‘ at Plug-In 2010 in San Jose.
Nissan Statement on 8/100 LEAF Battery: “…very comfortable with this number”-Carlos Tavares (exec VP).
On the Level of Loss of Battery Function that Will let you Tap into this Warranty: “…it’s too early to announce those details right now” and “you can bet that will be in super fine print, illegible to the human eye” (alright, I made that last sentence up)
America’s Favorite Trim Level: Over 75% have opted for the SL trim level. Who doesn’t want the cool solar panel for the extra $940? (ok, it comes with a lot of other stuff too) “My Lamborghini has 500 HP and scissor doors” – “My car has a solar panel” Conversation over. Who cares that it really doesn’t do anything.
GM on the LEAF’s Battery Warranty Before Nissan Announced 8 years/100,000: “I just want to know who’s going to pay for the Leaf battery when it needs to be replaced. Is that in the price or not? I don’t know how long those batteries are going to last and you’ve got to factor that in.” - Tony Posawatz – GM’s Volt Vehicle Line Director /…et le whoops
US Reservation Update: 17,000+
Favorite Color: With over 5,000 nods, ‘water blue’ or ‘Kentucky blue’ or whatever you call it, was the number one choice. Obviously, none of those people read Nissan-LEAF.net and therefore don’t know why that is a terrible choice. At number two is silver with a quarter of all reservations, with black, red and white far behind, duking it out to see who can finish 3rd in the AL East behind the Yankees and Red Sox.
Most Indicated Reason to Own a LEAF: Energy independence and environmental consciousness accounted for almost 70% of all reservationalists (reservationists?)
Reported Free Dealer Inspection Service Intervals: 12 months/15,000, 24 months/30,000 , 3 years and/or end of bumper to bumper 36,000 mile warranty (unconfirmed by Nissan to myself at this time, just local dealers, but I’m really not caring to follow up on it anymore…so here it is)
Nissan to Use AT&T for Digital Services Connection Because Verizon Sucks: Ok, they didn’t say that, but they meant it. AT&T uses GSM tech, universally adopted worldwide, Verizon CDMA.. “We didn’t want to have to do all that extra development for two different standards across the world” - Nissan exec, Mark Perry (via earth2tech)
![Will Ferrell Spotted Driving a Nissan LEAF [Video]](http://nissan-leaf.net/wp-content/themes/bigfoot/includes/timthumb.php?src=
http://nissan-leaf.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/wf.png
&h=48&w=48&zc=1)
“…it’s too early to announce those details right now” and “you can bet that will be in super fine print, illegible to the human eye” – lololol
“I just want to know who’s going to pay for the Leaf battery when it needs to be replaced. Is that in the price or not? I don’t know how long those batteries are going to last and you’ve got to factor that in.” – Tony Posawatz – Hopefully you’ll still be there @ GM Tony and not removed/replaced like the others ?!?!?!
GOEV!!!!
Future LEAF Driver(Quote)
Jay,
You forgot brutle dumping on the Volt! I didn’t know that the Volt lease allows for only 33 miles per say, HUH!?! You can’t drive it the full 40 miles without going over the lease limit?!? Something seems weird about that lease…
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/30/opinion/30neidermeyer.html?_r=1
GO EV!!!!
Future LEAF Driver(Quote)
The Leaf, being a pure EV is much simpler in so many ways (I like that!), but it still has its own technical challenges. For instance has anyone discussed simple things, such as why Nissan decided to locate the charge port right smack in the middle front of the car? This just seems like a real bad idea. In winter time, can you imagine how all the salt/slush would freeze that door shut? How do you actually actuate the door to access the power port? Is it automated or manual?
/Just bored today…looking for something to complain about.
JEC(Quote)
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It would be great to have a deeper technical discussion. An obstacle is going to be the very limited amount of information Nissan has released on the Leaf, so far as I know. But if you know of more, please get the ball rolling.
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Why the charger is in the front center? I suppose it gives access from both sides, and one could argue that driving into a parking spot the cord can be at the front of the spot, and handy location for some situations.
RB(Quote)
About the port- The ev1 had its port in the front. I think others did as well. With my garage setup it would be nice to have it placed where the volts port is. But if my wife ever got one it would need to be on the passenger side. In the end no matter where you put it, a portion of the population would like it placed somewhere else. Since putting on the side will COMPLETELY alienate 2/3 (those whose charger is on front or on other side) of the users putting it in the front will only MARGINALLY alienate 2/3 (those with charge on either side of vehicle) the users. Using parking garage and restaurant chargers will be easier if port is located in the front.
About the site- Its partially because there isnt a wealth of information, and partially because the readership/commenter are much less here. Lyle has been building the site for years. Statik has been for months. Websites take a long time to build up. And considering the young age of the site hes doing pretty good. Go to any gm-volt post and there are hundred of comments, here- a dozen (i actually like this better). Statik will get there, but the best way to make things better is to start these threads yourself, and reply to yourself if needed as you find out more.
Todd Horst(Quote)
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Thanks Todd.
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Indeed, the site is fairly young, we are in month three now I believe. As you say, like Lyle’s site in the early days, it takes awhile to get going. People not only have to find you, but then you have to have something of interest at the other end, and even more importantly the site has to show a level committment to the product every day…something Lyle has done and shown for almost 4 years now, myself and ‘Ron’ (when I am AWOL) are just hoping to come close to that standard.
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Personally, I am overwhelmed by the reception/progress of the site. I did consider that we may be doing this in a vacuum for awhile (or forever), but people have really embraced it, and having 20-40 comments a thread during the week (dozen or so on weekends) is great. I would have been tickled pink to just touch double digits occasionally at this point.
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We really envisioned it to be as much about the community, the interaction, as the topic of the day (like gm-volt.com…but for the LEAF) That is what Lyle has done, and I think that is the real payoff, for people to have a discussion, to add their information together, to pick each others brains and perspectives. The site is developing a pretty nice base now, and I think that will only grow, along with the discussion. Thanks to all you guys, (=
Jay (Statik) Cole(Quote)
Statik,
I re-read what I posted and it came off slightly differently than what I had intended.
I am now a “regular” on your site as Lyle’s, but I was trying to get a couple points across. One was that the Leaf, by design is much simpler and has fewer technical topics, and the other being that I was looking for more technical discussions.
I would expect that as your readership grows, that more and more of the technical details will be discussed. I am just a little impatient.
I am in no way disparaging your site. I love reading it!
JEC(Quote)
I know my friend, I understand whazt you were saying completely. I appreciate you here and your desire to ‘get right into it’
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I think once we have a little more of a soild base I will try to have a day set aside for it. ie) Saturday will be the weekly roundup-all the little things put together, and maybe sunday as the ‘techie’ day
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Nor sure yet, still trying to figure out the schedule/identity etc.
Jay (Statik) Cole(Quote)
I let that one slide, heeh. I also had another ‘wah-puusch’ (whip cracking sound) about the premium gas, but it wasn’t in direct reference to the LEAF, so I left it on the cutting room floor.
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If you interested I do have a fairly long piece on the Volt lease today over at GM-volt.com if you car to read it:
http://gm-volt.com/2010/07/31/volt-and-leaf-battle-for-lease-customers-volt-brings-bigger-bat/
Jay (Statik) Cole(Quote)
Charging port in front : I just wonder what will happen in case of a thick icing rain stopping the driver from opening it when back home. They must have thought of something…
Tall Pete(Quote)
As I understand it, you can get a jet black or silver gray brazier for the front with a heated long john flap over the charging port door for use in inclimate weather.
Van(Quote)
“Nissan to Use AT&T for Digital Services Connection….”
Does anyone know if this service has an associated monthly fee like GM’s “onstar”? The earth2tech source article says it’s rolled into the base price of the Leaf but I’m guessing the “rolled in freeness” stops at some point?
Carcus(Quote)
“On the Level of Loss of Battery Function that Will let you Tap into this Warranty…”
– I’m hoping the warranty will guarantee a minimum of 80% of original battery capacity.
It will be interesting to see if they just use the car’s onboard systems to tell you what the remaining capacity is or if there will have to be shop equipment involved. The warranty may also specify who has the final say and whether outside testing is allowed. As there will be many thousands of dollars at stake on the outcome of these tests, it will be very interesting to see how the warranty standards and testing procedures develop.
Carcus(Quote)
Photo is priceless
Lyle(Quote)
Llamas eat Leaves. Naturally, they’d be curious.
Carcus(Quote)
Charging port makes sense in the front of the car for us because I plan on having the quick charger installed in the center of the garage right in the middle of where we park tour two vehicles. I am thinking 2-3 years down the road when we trade in our last ICE for our second EV. We can share the fast charger between both vehicles and it will be quick to unplug one and then just plug in the other vehicle. Three years down the road EV’s will be a lot less and have double the range (200+ miles).
James E(Quote)
Carcus – I have a suspicion that the Nissan dealerships will be masters in repairing lithium batteries. By just dropping the battery and then replace the bad or worst cells they can get the LEAF back up to an acceptable range without the expense of replacing the whole pack. It just makes sense; they know they will be losing repair business because the LEAF will require little service compared to an ICE vehicle. Nissan can make up for some of that loss by becoming battery technicians.
James E(Quote)
I blame the lack of quality control around here my friend, (=
Jay (Statik) Cole(Quote)
Already did Jay, but what’s with the 12K cap!?!? As you said, “With a 12,000 cap on mileage before fees kick in, the average driver will have a issue using the Volt as their daily driver…” Considering that’s one of the Volt’s features – “to drive far beyond 40 miles electric with gas generator”. So, if one drives just 40 EV miles a day, you would total 14,600 miles in one year without ever using the gas generator. That’s kinda of like saying full EV use and any gas miles are an extra charge! That cap is way way too low, especially not even allowing full EV range each day. Stupid!
What’s the LEAF’s mileage limit per year for leasing???
GO EV!!!
FUTURE LEAF DRIVER(Quote)
Well ya, but also for you to take the time and make it all happen!
I’m sure we fellow EVers will be praising your efforts for a long time coming!
Thx Static!
GO EV!!!!
FUTURE LEAF DRIVER(Quote)
James E. — “I have a suspicion that the Nissan dealerships will be masters in repairing lithium batteries.”
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I’m sure they will. But there are limits. At least the way I understand it.
You have to keep the cells balanced to some degree. — i.e. you can’t just start throwing brand new strong cells into an old pack to bring the whole thing up to an acceptable level. But you can use similar cells (i.e. recovered or reconditioned) to replace bad cells.
At least, that’s the way it used to be with Ni-cads. Would be nice to hear from someone with experience in the Lithiums or even some of the pros and cons on NEC’s Lithium Manganese (vs lifepo4, etc.) while we’re at it. ( hint to Statik)
Carcus(Quote)
Your looking at the same 12,000/year. What we don’t know is the mileage charge. However, given Nissan’s penchant for making everything about the LEAF as standard as other mid-size cars in their lineup, .15 cents a pop sounds all but assured.
Jay (Statik) Cole(Quote)
I was told by the dealership that the LEAF would 15,000/year with an option to buy at the end of the lease at approximatly 58% of the orginal price.
James(Quote)
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Not a great idea to be swaping in and out the cells. Unless the LEAFs charger/BMS can keep the 192 cells balanced in a sychronized state of charge. The parallel series structure is a good setup for monitoring this kind of thing. Dunno how you would pull this kind of info out of Nissan atm.
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Lithium Manganese has a very high reliabilty rate and longevity, which is probably why Nissan is going with that for a full BEV. Its when they get into a lithium nickel manganese cobalt oxide cathode is when we start to see the good times in the future. Double the density, same cost because of the small cobalt amount. Your looking at 250Wh/kg, rather than the 110-120 your getting now. Looking at a usable 1,000 cycles at the moment, that you’d like to get a little higher…but now you are talking about packing 200 mile packs instead of 100.
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The variance between the pros and cons of manganese vs iron phosphate are almost negligible really, other than the biggie, relative cost. LiMn2O4 is cheaper. It used to be that manganese had a lower life cycle than iron phosphate so the extra cost was worth it, but not so much anymore, AESC has gotten a solid 100,000 plus ‘miles’ consistantly now with 80% still left ‘in the tank,’ so you are looking at well over a 1,000 usable cycles for both.
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I think the trade off now you are seeing (taking out future R&D value and pricing), if you are say comparing the chemisty GM is using with the Volt and Nissan is using in the LEAF, is that the LEAF is better suited operating at higher temperatures, and the Volt at the lower.
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I’m not a professional in these matters, someone else could probably tell you better than I.
Jay (Statik) Cole(Quote)
That would be a great mileage number for a lease, but a hideous residual to have to pay if you wanted to keep it.
Jay (Statik) Cole(Quote)