Your Nissan LEAF Has a Low Battery? This Is What Happens On Your Trek to Empty

76

With 4 kWh of Battery Remaining the LEAF Gives a Friendly, Written Reminder of the Situation

For a good number of us now we have had the opportunity to take the Nissan LEAF for a test spin. However, that being said, we have only been on short, tidy test drives around parking lots, or quick jaunts around town (or through Central Park as the case may be), but never had the opportunity to really run the LEAF into the ground.

So, what actually happens when the LEAF gets low?   Really low?  Recently, John Voelcker (senior editor-ACE) did break into those precious last few kWh of power in the LEAF, and was kind enough to take some photos and describe the event for us.

The first trigger happened with about 12 miles of range left on his drive, which coincides with the fact  there was 4 kWh of total battery capacity left in the pack.  At that level, the car gives you a notification that the “Battery level is low” (pictured above) and lets you know how far  away the closest charging station it has on record.  Incidentally, for Mr. Voelcker at the time, the LEAF said there was 3 destinations where a free receptacle was available.

The LEAF then asks if you would like to head out to one of its suggestions, and if you respond in the positive, the navigation system quickly draws up the route.

"You Fool! I Demand You Recharge Me!"

However, whilst on route to your charging destination, if you break into that last 2 kWh of power (or about 5 mile-ish of range remaining), the LEAF is none too thrilled with you having not heeded its warning, and will shut/curtail non essential functions (like the A/C…and say good-bye to that 90 mph top speed).

Just to further annoy you inform you…in the space that would normally tell you your range, the LEAF is now letting you know you are in trouble with the dreaded three flashing bars, which loosely translates to “You fool!  Your wife beside you is clearly going to have a heart attack in anticipation of you stranding the family on the side of the road.”

Unfortunately, the good people at ACE (All Cars Electric) did not run the car completely to a stand still (because they had a plane to catch or something), so they then theorized that because petrol cars typically still have up to 2 gallons of spare fuel in them when the dash is reading empty, that the LEAF still has a ‘hidden’ 10% capacity, which means another 10-15 miles of range. 

We reached out to Nissan about his theory of an extra 10 miles range being in ‘reserve’ reserve, only to receiver the shortest of all answers, “Nope”  (I guess they could have said just “no”…which technically would have been shorter)

Mr. Voelcker also interviewed Nissan’s Director of Product Planning, Mark Perry about range anxiety in conjunction with his piece on the low warning system on the LEAF, and Mr. Perry again stated that:

“We (Nissan) believe range anxiety is a falsehood…(that) electric-car drivers turn out to adjust fairly quickly to their cars’ abilities, and soon stop worrying about the car in daily use. If Leaf owners have a day where the total journeys add up to more than 100 miles, they simply plan to use another vehicle in the household fleet.” 

/looks like Mr. Perry has been into the box of common-sensicles again

(Photos/Story: ACE-All Cars Electric)

76 Responses

  1. Jobbeur says:

    I wish the Leaf’s computer warning voice was like Mrs. T –>
    ” I’m depleted FOOL!”

    Nice info!

      (Quote)

  2. Unlimited_MPG says:

    In my case I doubt it will ever get that low. The Leaf should be perfect for what I need it for.

    On a side note…does anyone know if this statement is true? “The Leaf requires a 240-volt charging station, which costs $700, plus installation.”
    http://www.cars.com/nissan/leaf/2011/reviews/?revid=56722

    My understanding was I would be able to use a 120v to charge the Leaf…am I wrong on that?

      (Quote)

  3. Unlimited_MPG says:

    Where my post go? Uh..oh..Jay did you pay the web hosting bill?

    Mod Edit: I found it! Pasted Above.

      (Quote)

  4. Unlimited_MPG says:

    Duplicate comment detected; it looks as though you’ve already said that!

    Getting the above error when I was trying to post this:

    In my case I doubt it will ever get that low. The Leaf should be perfect for what I need it for.

    On a side note does anyone know if this statement is true? “The Leaf requires a 240-volt charging station, which costs $700, plus installation.”

    My understanding was I would be able to use a 120v to charge the Leaf…am I wrong on that?

      (Quote)

  5. Ronny Islam says:

    @Unlimited_MPG , using the 120V , it will take 15-18hrs for a full charge. Using 240V it will take 8 hours. The quick charge which is at even a higher V (not sure what) will take 30mins to get to 80% the rest 20% is not linear – so can take another 20 mins.

      (Quote)

  6. Unlimited_MPG says:

    Thanks Ronny. Yeah at first when I read “required” I thought something had changed. They should have said its a good idea to have the 240v to charge the Leaf. I’ve heard rumors also that charging batteries at a slower rate is better for them. Not sure if the 240v has any impact on the battery life being lowered?

      (Quote)

  7. PaulM says:

    The 240v charging station isn’t required but Nissan highly recommends it. The Leaf will be coming with a relatively low amperage 240v on board charger (16A) so the consensus is it will not put any more abuse on the batteries than charging at 120v.

      (Quote)

  8. mark smith says:

    On 440V super fast charge (commercial sites only, not domestic) I’ve heard on a youtube video a Leaf technician at an autoshow say 26minutes to reach 80%… not 30 minutes. The 440V charger delivers about 120 amps. In the UK a domestic circuit runs at 240V 13amps, and a special oven / water heater seperate line runs at maybe 30amps so 120amps is very powerful – and that’s why the 440V cable looks as thick as a petrol pump hose!
    What I’m not sure about (and Wikipedia doesnt help as the authors write from a US 120v perspective where $1000-2000 needs to be spent on a upgraded 240V connection) is what charging cable the car will come with in the rest of the world where Europe, Sth America, Russia, Australia, etc ALL use 240V. Surely it can just plugin normally to a normal plug?

      (Quote)

  9. mark smith says:

    @Unlimited_MPG , using the 120V , it will take 15-18hrs for a full charge. Using 240V it will take 8 hours. The quick charge which is at even a higher V (not sure what) will take 30mins to get to 80% the rest 20% is not linear – so can take another 20 mins.  (Quote)

    I wrote more in a seperate email below – but 440V 3phase (120? amps) is the 26minute 80% fast charge.

      (Quote)

  10. mark smith says:

    Thanks Ronny. Yeah at first when I read “required” I thought something had changed. They should have said its a good idea to have the 240v to charge the Leaf. I’ve heard rumors also that charging batteries at a slower rate is better for them. Not sure if the 240v has any impact on the battery life being lowered?  (Quote)

    C is used as the charge/discharge rate. C at max output is about 1 hour probably (how long the battery would last if delivering fullpower – this would equate to 90mph on the highway I guess). So charging at different rates tells you the stress on the battery…
    120V (C/16 = 16x longer to charge – so a very very low charging rate)
    240V (C/8 = 8x longer – still a very low charging rate)
    440V, 3 phase, 120?amps = 26minute charge to 80% = 2C aprox = very fast charging – and the battery will probably get warmed and harm the battery a bit … this is why Nissan says used every day for 8 years/100,000 miles the range will have fallen to 70% of 100mph instead of the expected 80+%. But as 440V is only going to be available at commercial charging stations / Nissan dealers / future service stations, malls, etc. most people would probably only use it a few times a month.

      (Quote)

  11. Jimza Skeptic says:

    I am sensing anxiety. The VOLT cost about $8,000 more, but on the flip side you do not need the fleet of cars that Mark Perry from Nissan wants you to have. Cost of second car, plus insurance and maintenance will add cost way above the $8,000.

    Plus you will have peace of mind and the wife won’t be yelling at you… (at least for running out of electricity).

      (Quote)

  12. demetrius says:

    Household Fleet – I wish…

      (Quote)

  13. RB says:

    Plus you will have peace of mind and the wife won’t be yelling at you…

    .
    Actually the wife is the one who most wants the Leaf. No more oil change, no more gas station. Positively, easy to go to get hair done, go to vet, go to see friends, all local trips but very very important ones to her. Plug in overnight? No different from iphone, etc.

      (Quote)

  14. RB says:

    Household Fleet – I wish…  

    .
    But it is true that at my house and those of all my neighbors there are multiple cars and trucks, used for multiple purposes. So the idea of selecting one is not strange, or even unusual. As Mr. Perry says, if “primary car” means the one with the most miles, that one can easily be the Leaf.

      (Quote)

  15. Van says:

    The Leaf has a 24 kwh battery, and it appears the maximum recharge level is set at 90% (21.4 kwh). The low energy light comes on at 4 kwh, leaving a usable range of 17.6 kwh. At 5 miles per kwh average, the range appears to about 85 miles. Once the NMC battery becomes available, I sure hope Nissan offers a 36 kwh pack because driving with the little gas pump light lit defines range anxiety.

      (Quote)

  16. GeorgeS says:

    Looks like Nissan really is letting you drain the pack to zero. I read an article yesterday that they had drawn 22.5 kwh out of the pack. The fact that the car found a charging station is good but you need to hope it is a L3 charger. If it’s L2 you will be there a while since the recharge rate is about 0.25 miles/ minute. L3 however is about 4 miles/minute.

      (Quote)

  17. GeorgeS says:

    I am not convinced having a million 220 charging stations is really going to help much—–except at stores where you will be in an hour or so……but in that case you were probably charged up from the night before.

    L3 is where it’s at!! I think Stan told me they will have L3 every 40 miles on I5 around SD. That’s cool for sure!!

      (Quote)

  18. GeorgeS says:

    Now if I just had L3 on my Brammo Empulse I could charge at a rate of 8mi/minute!!

      (Quote)

  19. GeorgeS said:
    I am not convinced having a million 220 charging stations is really going to help much—–except at stores where you will be in an hour or so……but in that case you were probably charged up from the night before.

    L3 is where it’s at!! I think Stan told me they will have L3 every 40 miles on I5 around SD. That’s cool for sure!!  (Quote)

    Perhaps it is just me, but I don’t forsee a lot of random ‘stop for recharging’ happening with people who buy an electric car at this point. Not with L2 for sure, and not much more even with fast charging.

    If the destination is within the boomerang range (50 miles), people will take the LEAF for sure, or if they know their destination has a charge port waiting at the other end to replenish the car while they do something else (like work) then they could extent that likely range out to up to 100 miles.

    I’m just not feeling the 140 mile trip in a LEAF with a planned stop some where in between for a additional charge to make it to my destination…even if it is a fast charge. In theory it could happen, but it isn’t in my playbook for getting somewhere.

      (Quote)

  20. vanuck says:

    “We (Nissan) believe range anxiety is a falsehood…(that) electric-car drivers turn out to adjust fairly quickly to their cars’ abilities, and soon stop worrying about the car in daily use. If Leaf owners have a day where the total journeys add up to more than 100 miles, they simply plan to use another vehicle in the household fleet.”

    Is seems that Mark Perry agrees wi th what I was saying a few days ago, if you can trust the readings from your car’s instrument panel, then there won’t be any range anxiety excapt maybe at the begining until the owner gets to know/adjust to the limitations/advantages of the car.

      (Quote)

  21. CaptJackSparrow says:

    I wish the Leaf’s computer warning voice was like Mrs. T –>
    ” I’m depleted FOOL!”

    lol, nice!!!

    I have a different idea for that but for respect to Statik, I won’t post. Has something to do with a female voice…..etc….

    Anyway, range anxiety, won’t happen for me. My commute is 9.5 miles one way and the rest of the fam is within 20 miles. Unfortunately so are the inlaws. :o )

      (Quote)

  22. CaptJackSparrow says:

    Now if I just had L3 on my Brammo Empulse I could charge at a rate of 8mi/minute!!

    Dude, that L3 charger will fry the begeeeeberz out of your cells maaaan.

      (Quote)

  23. Marcus says:

    Dude, that L3 charger will fry the begeeeeberz out of your cells maaaan.  (Quote)

    I will avoid the L3 as most I could in the Leaf-but would really not do it in that in that bike. Who is Brammo? They really tested their product well enough or will stand behind it if you fry it? Go with L2

      (Quote)

  24. GeorgeS says:

    Dude, that L3 charger will fry the begeeeeberz out of your cells maaaan.  

    Thx Capt I was hoping someone would catch that. Let’s see 50kw/10kwh=5C charge rate. The Brammo batt won’t take that in it’s release config–but 5C chg rate is not out of the question. That’s the nice thing about eMot’s they go down the road at about 1/2 the kwh/mile of a electric car, so given the same charger kw you add miles at twice the rate.

      (Quote)

  25. stuart22 says:

    Does any of this come as a surprise? Perry and Nissan have been riding a wave of denial up to now and judging from what Perry says, they’re going to ride the wave out with fingers crossed. At some point all the blind faith the green media people have for Nissan (e.g. the ACE people theorized Nissan equipping the LEAF witha a ‘hidden’ reserve charge) is going to be exposed as the fantasies they are.

    This will happen when the media gets their hands on a LEAF and finally tests it to its limits. Reality time at last. Should anybody here be afraid of that moment? If so – why? We deserve to know exactly what kind of value our money will buy.

      (Quote)

  26. GeorgeS says:

    I will avoid the L3 as most I could in the Leaf-but would really not do it in that in that bike.Who is Brammo?They really tested their product well enough or will stand behind it if you fry it?Go with L2  

    Marcus,
    The 10 kwh Brammo Empulse has around 100 mile range and will have a 220v, 3740 kw charger (approx). http://www.brammo.com/brammogallery_empulse/

      (Quote)

  27. GeorgeS says:

    Does any of this come as a surprise?Perry and Nissan have been riding a wave of denial up to now and judging from what Perry says, they’re going to ride the wave out with fingers crossed.At some point all the blind faith the green media people have for Nissan (e.g. the ACE people theorized Nissan equipping the LEAF witha a ‘hidden’ reserve charge) is going to be exposed as the fantasies they are.This will happen when the media gets their hands on a LEAF and finally tests it to its limits.Reality time at last.Should anybody here be afraid of that moment?If so – why?We deserve to know exactly what kind of value our money will buy.  

    Stuart,
    I don’t see any deception. The Leaf has a 24 kwh battery and they will let us use around 90-100% of the pack. That’s normal for an EV.-GSB

      (Quote)

  28. jcesare says:

    During the test drive event in San Diego the subject of battery depletion came up. We were informed towing is included in the 3 year warranty and they are in negotiations with AAA to provide towing for members. They will tow you to your choice of nearest charging station or home. In fact they flat out stated that if you ever get into a flat line situation it’s better to call for a tow than totally deplete the battery.

    As far as topping off the battery and battery life, the senior Nissan engineer (not the hired tour guides) stated that the battery formula used (I believe he said lithium magnesium) has no “memory” issue and will not degrade from mormal use when using the 110 or 220 chargers. You can top it off as much as you like. The also stated that the fast charge 440 will not really affect the battery life for the first 80% of the charge. Over the life of the vehice, the only way 440 battery degredation will come into play will be in a fleet environment when it is constantly used times a day. For the average user, they believe it’s a non issue.

      (Quote)

  29. DonC says:

    This will happen when the media gets their hands on a LEAF and finally tests it to its limits. Reality time at last.

    Well Motor Trend is not known for its green credentials and it found the Leaf to be perfectly acceptable if a bit “downscale” for its tastes. So “reality” is that nay-sayers like you have been the ones living the fantasy. Read and believe my friend:

    http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/alternative/1010_2011_nissan_leaf_full_drive/index.html

      (Quote)

  30. DonC says:

    Nice job Jay. Great to confirm how it actually works. There are some very rosy ideas floating around. How about asking for confirmation that the battery pack is actually larger than 24 kWh? LOL

      (Quote)

  31. CaptJackSparrow says:

    This will happen when the media gets their hands on a LEAF and finally tests it to its limits.

    What they’ll find out is that they will be able to drain down to 90%-99% of the batt pack.
    I don’t get it, what’s wrong with that? Personally I don’t ever recall them saying there is a reserve. Anyone else? I might have missed that one.

      (Quote)

  32. CaptJackSparrow says:

    Hey Statik, find out exactly how the batt pack get’s cooled/thermal regulation.
    Is it by cabin air blown down to the batt pack or what? I know most hear it is the cabin air getting pumped to the pack but some think the pack is sealed and no way for the air to get to the cells or sub packs within.

    Anyway, just curious.

      (Quote)

  33. DonC says:

    Hey Statik, find out exactly how the batt pack get’s cooled/thermal regulation.

    Conduction and radiation. No convection. There is no way air will ever be exchanged between a battery pack and the passenger compartment. Well, maybe if the car is built by BP.

      (Quote)

  34. DonC said:
    Nice job Jay. Great to confirm how it actually works. There are some very rosy ideas floating around. How about asking for confirmation that the battery pack is actually larger than 24 kWh? LOL  (Quote)

    Thanks Don,

    Not sure you have noticed, but I always avoid/don’t comment on that ‘more than 24 kWh’ issue? I do not know why, but this is such a hot button issue, and no amount of facts/documentation seems to be able to change minds.

    I think people have made it into this ‘some Nissan guy somewhere said that it was 28 kWh, or 30 kWh’ but I think it oringinally came out of people trying to make sense of some old speculations on depth of discharge and whatnot…so I just stay away from the topic, but for your entertainment, I will do it one time.

    ***puts on flak jacket***

    It’s 24 kWh total.
    For sure.
    100%

    That being said, I don’t want this to degrade into a whole thing about why it is not 24 kWh, or a juxtaposition on why both can be right. There is a mountain of evidence out there on the 24 kWh side, and opposite amount on the other side.

    I will say if anyone has a actual name (ie-Katherine Zachery at HQ) of anyone at Nissan who has ever said on the record it is more than 24 kWh, I will definitely hunt them down and get the 411. It would be huge, huge news if it were true.

      (Quote)

  35. stuart22 says:

    Well Motor Trend is not known for its green credentials and it found the Leaf to be perfectly acceptable if a bit “downscale” for its tastes. So “reality” is that nay-sayers like you have been the ones living the fantasy. Read and believe my friend:http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/alternative/1010_2011_nissan_leaf_full_drive/index.html  

    Thanks DonC for proving my case. This Motor Trend ‘test’ was no more than a Nissan controlled 65 mile drive – not the ‘to the limits’ testing I talked about in my post. This was nothing more than a staged ‘puffball’ test. Not anything like MT’s multi-day hammering of the Volt without GM looking over their shoulder.

    By bringing up this ‘roadtest’ to rebut my earlier post, you merely became an example of the denial I see rampant within the EV community. The reality of the LEAF will remain a fantasy until Nissan unleashes the LEAF into the hands of a number of independent and neutral automotive media sources – just as GM did with the Volt. Let’s quit these damn Soviet-style staged events which fool only the fools among us.

      (Quote)

  36. CaptJackSparrow says:

    Conduction and radiation

    Are you saying the batt pack will be bolted to the metl bottom with thermal compound against the body of the car and that’s the way it get’s “Thermal Regulation”?

    Kind of like using the car chassis like a CPU heatsink?

    lol, correct me if i’m wrong man cuz in the words of Forest Gump…..”I am not a smart ma-an Jen-nay…..”
    :)

      (Quote)

  37. CaptJackSparrow says:

    Let’s quit these damn Soviet-style staged events which fool only the fools among us.

    +1

    /wait, where’s the + & – ?!?!?!?
    //STATIK!!!

      (Quote)

  38. evnow says:

    About the usage of L2/L3 charging, here is my take.

    Wherever I go (shopping etc) – if I can find a parking spot with a charging dock, I’ll probably park my Leaf there and charge it. More from a evangelizing EVs perspective. If the charging is free I can see a lot of people do it – for the free electricity.

    I’ll definitely use L3 and drive along I-5 as much as I can. At this point, L3 essentially doubles the range of Leaf for us. Here is the charger map of Seattle and surround areas …

    MOD EDIT: Link fixed

      (Quote)

  39. Chris says:

    This is interesting information, in that it directly conflicts with what I was told at the LEAF tour in San Diego! Our guide informed us that the Leaf would warn you when it got low, and would prompt you to re-direct your travel to the nearest charging station – as described in your article. She also said that when the battery got “really low” the car would go into “Turtle Mode” – which includes shutting down the AC, and reducing top speed etc. – sounds a lot like the behavior described. However, the tidbit she mentioned which this article doesn’t touch on is that “Turtle Mode” is literal – there is a turtle displayed on the dashboard to tell you when this happens. Maybe our guide wasn’t informed, and the turtle has been morphed into three red flashing bars?

      (Quote)

  40. GeorgeS says:

    Boy EVnow you guys got a great network there!!

      (Quote)

  41. GeorgeS says:

    Hey RB,
    Where did you get that avatar?? I was watching an old Ally McBeal rerun and I swear I saw it on the show.-GSB

      (Quote)

  42. Jobbeur says:

    This is interesting information, in that it directly conflicts with what I was told at the LEAF tour in San Diego!Our guide informed us that the Leaf would warn you when it got low, and would prompt you to re-direct your travel to the nearest charging station – as described in your article.She also said that when the battery got “really low” the car would go into “Turtle Mode” – which includes shutting down the AC, and reducing top speed etc. – sounds a lot like the behavior described.However, the tidbit she mentioned which this article doesn’t touch on is that “Turtle Mode” is literal – there is a turtle displayed on the dashboard to tell you when this happens.Maybe our guide wasn’t informed, and the turtle has been morphed into three red flashing bars?  

    I think the turtle display is the orange one (on the seconde photo of this post) right to the green car. Hard to distinguish, but I think its a Turtle.

    Does an orange turtle mean its Michelangelo?

    Go Ninja GO! Go LEAF!

      (Quote)

  43. Chris said:
    This is interesting information, in that it directly conflicts with what I was told at the LEAF tour in San Diego! Our guide informed us that the Leaf would warn you when it got low, and would prompt you to re-direct your travel to the nearest charging station – as described in your article. She also said that when the battery got “really low” the car would go into “Turtle Mode” – which includes shutting down the AC, and reducing top speed etc. – sounds a lot like the behavior described. However, the tidbit she mentioned which this article doesn’t touch on is that “Turtle Mode” is literal – there is a turtle displayed on the dashboard to tell you when this happens. Maybe our guide wasn’t informed, and the turtle has been morphed into three red flashing bars?  (Quote)

    .

    Jobbeur said:
    I think the turtle display is the orange one (on the seconde photo of this post) right to the green car. Hard to distinguish, but I think its a Turtle.

    Does an orange turtle mean its Michelangelo?

    Go Ninja GO! Go LEAF!  (Quote)

    It is the turtle you see!

    Here it is blown up:

      (Quote)

  44. Stan Stein says:

    Statik wrote:
    Perhaps it is just me, but I don’t forsee a lot of random ‘stop for recharging’ happening with people who buy an electric car at this point. Not with L2 for sure, and not much more even with fast charging.

    I believe you are incorrect. My day starts with me usually projecting to drive about a total of 70 miles. However, some days unexpectantly turn into over100 miles driven. If the roadside charger infrastucture was not to be put in place, I would not be purchasing a Leaf.

      (Quote)

  45. Herm says:

    ***puts on flak jacket***
    It’s 24 kWh total.
    For sure.
    100%

    I think so too, and it matches the know specs of the AESC batteries. It is amazing that Nissan can discharge that battery down to 95%, it speaks to very precise cell matching and a battery that dumps heat very well.

      (Quote)

  46. Herm says:

    I’ll definitely use L3 and drive along I-5 as much as I can. At this point, L3 essentially doubles the range of Leaf for us. Here is the charger map of Seattle and surround areas …

    Put free wifi at the charge spots and you will see lots of people recharging their LEAFs with the AC running while surfing the net.. those 30 minutes will fly before you can mark down all the trolls at Lyle’s blog… and if there is a 7-11 with 99¢ and diet slurpees nearby even better.

      (Quote)

  47. DonC says:

    This Motor Trend ‘test’ was no more than a Nissan controlled 65 mile drive – not the ‘to the limits’ testing I talked about in my post.

    You seem to want them to torture the data until it confesses and gives you the answer you want. The editors said it was “a real test drive”. They said they did not follow the Nissan route. They said they did some performance testing. They said they went 95 MPH.

    What do you want? You want them to drain the battery and then say “if you drain the battery it won’t go”? Or do you want them to run the car off the road and then say “the car ran off the road”? Or do you want them to try and drive it up a 40 degree incline and say “it won’t go up a 40 degree incline because it can’t accelerate at 4g”?

    For what it is it works. No Q about it. The Volt tests were more demanding. No Q about that. However, those “stress” tests were designed to test how the Volt operated in CS Mode with an engine incapable of producing sufficient the power for all drive cycles. MT didn’t really do any stress testing of the Volt in CD Mode.

      (Quote)

  48. Herm says:

    Are you saying the batt pack will be bolted to the metl bottom with thermal compound against the body of the car and that’s the way it get’s “Thermal Regulation”?Kind of like using the car chassis like a CPU heatsink?lol, correct me if i’m wrong man cuz in the words of Forest Gump…..”I am not a smart ma-an Jen-nay…..” 

    It may work, or put an aluminum plate pressed against the battery case and circulate freon thru it.

      (Quote)

  49. DonC says:

    Kind of like using the car chassis like a CPU heatsink?

    Kinda. Not an expert on this. The cells are long and thin. And the metal is long and thin. Both make for good conduction. No insulation since that would be counter productive. I guess that’s why the cold weather package will have the thermal blanket.

      (Quote)

  50. Steve says:

    Put free wifi at the charge spots and you will see lots of people recharging their LEAFs with the AC running while surfing the net.. those 30 minutes will fly before you can mark down all the trolls at Lyle’s blog… and if there is a 7-11 with 99¢ and diet slurpees nearby even better.  (Quote)

    you mentioned free wifi, which makes me think of the cost of charging. Expensive to put in a L3 charger, are these L3 chargers giving away free power too or are they charging you .50 kwh? will u still use them if the price is $10 a fill or take a gas car?

      (Quote)

  51. Jobbeur says:

    It may work, or put an aluminum plate pressed against the battery case and circulate freon thru it.  

    If you look at the battpack photo, ( http://www.hybridcars.com/news/13-key-questions-and-answers-about-nissan-leaf-battery-pack-and-ordering-28007.html ), I think i see a small radiator up front near the two power connectors. Maybe the fluid come from another rad in the cabin/AC and heating duct.

      (Quote)

  52. GeorgeS says:

    you mentioned free wifi, which makes me think of the cost of charging.Expensive to put in a L3 charger, are these L3 chargers giving away free power too or are they charging you .50 kwh?will u still use them if the price is $10 a fill or take a gas car?  

    I read somewhere that it would be a 10% markup. I also read that it would be something like 40 cents/kwh (or more).

      (Quote)

  53. GeorgeS says:

    If you look at the battpack photo, ( http://www.hybridcars.com/news/13-key-questions-and-answers-about-nissan-leaf-battery-pack-and-ordering-28007.html ), I think i see a small radiator up front near the two power connectors. Maybe the fluid come from another rad in the cabin/AC and heating duct.  

    Looks like a squirrel cage fan.

      (Quote)

  54. CaptJackSparrow says:

    If you look at the battpack photo, ( http://www.hybridcars.com/news/13-key-questions-and-answers-about-nissan-leaf-battery-pack-and-ordering-28007.html ), I think i see a small radiator up front near the two power connectors. Maybe the fluid come from another rad in the cabin/AC and heating duct.  

    Those look like heat sinks on shunts. That’s just my SWAG. Thanks for the link though. Good pics.
    I think the batt pack is designed well. The physical surface space of each prismatic cells seems adequate for heat dissipation. Besides, The motor can only deliver 80KW and the pack need only deliver 3.3333333C (80KW / 24KW) of discharge rate to output 80KW. That’s hardly pushing the cells IMHO. So, it looks like the batt pack will be perfectly fine under normal circumstances.

      (Quote)

  55. jeffhre says:

    I am sensing anxiety.The VOLT cost about $8,000 more, but on the flip side you do not need the fleet of cars that Mark Perry from Nissan wants you to have.Cost of second car, plus insurance and maintenance will add cost way above the $8,000.Plus you will have peace of mind and the wife won’t be yelling at you…(at least for running out of electricity).  

    So your’e saying when the wife has her Volt, if you still think it will be yours I’ll bring the pizza and we can eat it on the couch since that’s where most guys would be living if they tried that, you plan on footin’ it with no car?

    Thanks DonC for proving my case.This Motor Trend ‘test’ was no more than a Nissan controlled 65 mile drive – not the ‘to the limits’ testing I talked about in my post.This was nothing more than a staged ‘puffball’ test.Not anything like MT’s multi-day hammering of the Volt without GM looking over their shoulder.By bringing up this ‘roadtest’ to rebut my earlier post, you merely became an example of the denial I see rampant within the EV community.The reality of the LEAF will remain a fantasy until Nissan unleashes the LEAF into the hands of a number of independent and neutral automotive media sources – just as GM did with the Volt.Let’s quit these damn Soviet-style staged events which fool only the fools among us.  

    Yep, you got that right buddy, and if you look down toward evnow’s comment and squint just right, it sure does look like a map of the Baltic Sea region!

      (Quote)

  56. DonC says:

    Looks like a squirrel cage fan

    The fan eliminates hot spots within the pack.

      (Quote)

  57. CaptJackSparrow says:

    if you look down toward evnow’s comment and squint just right, it sure does look like a map of the Baltic Sea region!

    I don’t see no stinkin Baltic C…..

    /maybe I should’ve had 3 drinks at lunch to C it…… :-P

      (Quote)

  58. Herm says:

    Kinda. Not an expert on this. The cells are long and thin. And the metal is long and thin. Both make for good conduction. No insulation since that would be counter productive. I guess that’s why the cold weather package will have the thermal blanket. 

    No thermal blanket in the package, thats just me daydreaming products for my ebay store.. the package supposedly will have electrical heaters in between the cell modules, something that should be standard. You will be able to find my special grease for the battery pack in my store, it lubricates the free flow of electrons.

      (Quote)

  59. stuart22 says:

    What do you want?   

    At the very least I want to see from an independent source how different driving styles affect the range, and how much range variation they experience. The effect of terrain has on range. The effect sustained high speeds have on range. How well they found it was to adapt to the different personality quirks an electric car has when compared to a standard ICE car.

    I’m looking for this info to come from someone outside the EV community; from someone who could be as close to an average Joe or Jill as can be found. Without Nissan breathing over their shoulder.

    It should happen sooner than later – introduction is near and potential buyers need to be aware of what they are getting into.

      (Quote)

  60. GeorgeS says:

    At the very least I want to see from an independent source how different driving styles affect the range, and how much range variation they experience. The effect of terrain has on range.The effect sustained high speeds have on range.How well they found it was to adapt to the different personality quirks an electric car has when compared to a standard ICE car.
    I’m looking for this info to come from someone outside the EV community; from someone who could be as close to an average Joe or Jill as can be found.Without Nissan breathing over their shoulder.It should happen sooner than later – introduction is near and potential buyers need to be aware of what they are getting into.  

    Look stuart. I think you are looking for the Leaf to be more than what it is. The Leaf is for a 2 car family. The 2nd car is the trip car, the Leaf is an in town car. Since 80% of all drivers drive only 40 miles per day or less (per GM) then this car is ideally suited to those people as it provides twice the range.– ie plenty of margin. I don’t see much sense in bashing it….and I don’t see much sense in bashing the Volt, or Tesla. (unless you own a lot of stock in the major oil companies)

      (Quote)

  61. RB says:

    GeorgeS

    Hey RB,
    Where did you get that avatar?? I was watching an old Ally McBeal rerun and I swear I saw it on the show.-GSB  

    .
    Where I got it is that I dreamed it up and made the drawing myself. Maybe it includes some repressed memories :) but I wasn’t trying to copy or adapt anything, just draw. :0

      (Quote)

  62. RB says:

    Put free wifi at the charge spots and you will see lots of people recharging their LEAFs with the AC running while surfing the net.. those 30 minutes will fly before you can mark down all the trolls at Lyle’s blog… and if there is a 7-11 with 99¢ and diet slurpees nearby even better.  

    .
    And put them at Starbucks, the work will flow, the coffee will flow, the car will go….

      (Quote)

  63. RB says:

    At the very least I want to see from an independent source how different driving styles affect the range, and how much range variation they experience. The effect of terrain has on range. The effect sustained high speeds have on range. How well they found it was to adapt to the different personality quirks an electric car has when compared to a standard ICE car.

    .
    Will go better if you wait a while and see how things go for a while. Other people have more of a sense of adventure. That may turn out well or be foolhardy, who knows.

      (Quote)

  64. CaptJackSparrow says:

    At the very least I want to see from an independent source how different driving styles affect the range, and how much range variation they experience. The effect of terrain has on range.The effect sustained high speeds have on range.How well they found it was to adapt to the different personality quirks an electric car has when compared to a standard ICE car.
    I’m looking for this info to come from someone outside the EV community; from someone who could be as close to an average Joe or Jill as can be found.Without Nissan breathing over their shoulder.It should happen sooner than later – introduction is near and potential buyers need to be aware of what they are getting into.  

    I think what you want is what Tom H. experienced in his Mini-E. Both cars have relatively the same KWh batt pack and range. Look up his posts on Lyle’s site. He explains in good detail the good the bad and the misconstrued. Real world experience driver that was an ICE only driver before the Mini-E. That’s close enough data “for Govt work”. :-)

      (Quote)

  65. Herm says:

    you mentioned free wifi, which makes me think of the cost of charging.Expensive to put in a L3 charger, are these L3 chargers giving away free power too or are they charging you .50 kwh?will u still use them if the price is $10 a fill or take a gas car?

    I personally would not use them but paying $5-10 for 20kwh should not be a problem for anyone.. I personally dont think there is a business case for setting up commercial fast charge stations.. except for marketing reasons at starbucks and large malls.. the only real need is on the interstate system and the Feds can take care of it.. btw, setting up a L3 Charge Station has to be a lot cheaper than setting up a gas pump, those underground tanks and the environmental permits have to be expensive.

    http://www.smartplanet.com/business/blog/smart-takes/as-the-gas-pump-fades-a-new-infrastructure-emerges-for-electric-vehicles/8396/

      (Quote)

  66. DonC says:

    No thermal blanket in the package

    Apparently Mark Perry told someone it would be included. You’re scooped!

      (Quote)

  67. 21mi._day says:

    And put them at Starbucks, the work will flow, the coffee will flow, the car will go…. RB

    Put free wifi at the charge spots and you will see lots of people recharging their LEAFs with the AC running while surfing the net..

    Or a restaurant with car-hop service.

      (Quote)

  68. DonC says:

    I don’t see no stinkin Baltic C…..

    It’s obviously there, just keep lookin!

      (Quote)

  69. JEff says:

    I am sensing anxiety. The VOLT cost about $8,000 more, but on the flip side you do not need the fleet of cars that Mark Perry from Nissan wants you to have. Cost of second car, plus insurance and maintenance will add cost way above the $8,000.

    Where and when did Mark Perry say that he wants people to have a fleet of cars? Certainly not in the comments quoted in this posting by Jay.

    Given that of the households that own a car roughly 1/3 have 1 car, 1/3 have 2 cars, and 1/3 have 3 or more cars
    http://www.autospies.com/news/study-finds-americans-own-2-28-vehicles-per-household-26437/
    there exists a substantial number of car-owning households that are suitable for a limited-range EV without the need to add to the size of their fleet.

    Look stuart. I think you are looking for the Leaf to be more than what it is. The Leaf is for a 2 car family. The 2nd car is the trip car, the Leaf is an in town car. Since 80% of all drivers drive only 40 miles per day or less (per GM) then this car is ideally suited to those people as it provides twice the range.– ie plenty of margin. I don’t see much sense in bashing it….and I don’t see much sense in bashing the Volt, or Tesla. (unless you own a lot of stock in the major oil companies)  

    I agree completely. This description fits my situation, and it’s why I’m interested in a Leaf. (And because electricity is cheaper than gasoline in my area.) The availability of public charging stations in my area, or on the interstates, that would extend the effective range of my EV, would not alter the usage pattern. The EV would replace my commuter car, my wife’s minivan will remain the trip car no matter what.

    Mod Edit: Fixed.
    Edit Functions ETA: TBD, (=

      (Quote)

  70. Gary says:

    “If Leaf owners have a day where the total journeys add up to more than 100 miles, they simply plan to use another vehicle in the household fleet.”

    Well, I guess I’ll have to use my gas hog pickup truck to drive on occasion to the big city an hour each way.

    Give me a fuel efficient Volt for these “exception days”, please.

      (Quote)

  71. JEff says:

    I’m curious – if you’re interested in fuel efficiency, why do you own a gas hog pickup truck in the first place? Is that what you’re driving to the city now?

    Well, I guess I’ll have to use my gas hog pickup truck to drive on occasion to the big city an hour each way.Give me a fuel efficient Volt for these “exception days”, please.  

      (Quote)

  72. Joseph says:

    I would like someone to comment on the following news item I saw being reported:
    “…The Audio A2 that is being tested is a standard four-seat vehicle with a full size trunk. The A2 drove at an average speed of 55 mph with the heat on. It made it 375 miles on the highway, plus a few more in town. They claim the battery has a 97 percent efficiency and can be charged from almost any socket. When plugged into a high-voltage direct-current source it can be charged in as little as 6 minutes. …”

    The above occured around Oct 27, 2010 on a trip from Munic to Berlin. If this is true, this is a game changer. There is no range problems with a 375 mile range.

    I just wonder why my normal PV plug in, EV World, etc sites are not reporting this.

    Joseph

      (Quote)

  73. Hello, just doing some browsing for my Visalia 4g website. Truly more information that you can imagine on the web. Wasn’t exactly what I was looking for, but interesting page. Have a great day.

      (Quote)

  74. code says:

    Hi there, I discovered your web site by the use of Google even as looking
    for a comparable matter, your site got here up,
    it looks great. I’ve bookmarked it in my google bookmarks.
    Hello there, just became alert to your weblog through Google, and found that it’s
    really informative. I am going to be careful for brussels.
    I’ll appreciate should you proceed this in future. Numerous other people might be benefited from your writing. Cheers!

      (Quote)

  75. Hello i am kavin, its my first occasion to commenting anyplace, when i read this piece of writing
    i thought i could also create comment due to this good article.

      (Quote)

  76. Nothing prepares you for the noise of the fans when
    you go to your first Old Firm Game and your ears will ring for a
    while after the final whistle. Of course runes are up to personal preference;
    however, there are more effective tools than others.
    Eight years of cutting edge Arsenal News always served
    up in the simple, intuitive user friendly format.

    My homepage – chinese epic league of legends wallpapers [eloboosting.tripod.com]

      (Quote)

Leave a Reply

© 2014 Nissan LEAF. All rights reserved.
Proudly designed by Theme Junkie.