Follow-Up: Nissan LEAF Battery Warranty

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Nissan LEAF Battery Warranty "Do's and Don'ts" Emerge

Yesterday, we reported that Nissan had let slip some booklets/information packages on the 2011 Nissan LEAF, and we would be remiss if we did not highlight the section that interests ‘would be’ LEAF owners the most – namely the battery warranty.   

There has been a lot of speculation over the past year on just what the warranty would and would not cover, and yesterday’s news  would seem to answer that question to a degree: 

LITHIUM–ION BATTERY COVERAGE
The Lithium-Ion coverage period is 96 months or 100,000 miles, whichever comes first. This warranty covers any repairs needed to correct defects in materials or workmanship subject to the exclusions listed under the heading WHAT IS NOT COVERED This warranty period is 96 months or 100,000 miles, whichever comes first.

It goes on to explain ‘WHAT IS NOT COVERED’ a little later on in the booklet:

LITHIUM-ION BATTERY
This warranty does not cover damage or failures resulting from or caused by:
* Exposing a vehicle to ambient temperatures above120F (49C) for over 24 hours.
* Storing a vehicle in temperatures below -13F (-25C) for over seven days.
* Leaving your vehicle for over 14 days where the lithium-ion battery reaches a zero or near zero state of charge.
* Physically damaging the lithium-ion battery or intentionally attempting to reduce the life of the lithium-ion battery.
* Exposing the lithium-ion battery to contact with a direct flame.
* Charging the lithium-ion battery full on a daily basis despite the lithium-ion battery keeping a high state of charge level (98-100%).
* Immersing any portion of the lithium-ion battery in water or fluids.
* Opening the lithium-ion battery enclosure or having it serviced by someone other than a Nissan LEAF certified technician.
* Neglecting to follow correct charging procedures.
* Use of incompatible charging devices.
* Consequential damage caused by the failure to repair
an existing problem.

GRADUAL CAPACITY LOSS
The Lithium-ion battery (EV battery), like all lithium-ion batteries, will experience gradual capacity loss with time and use. Loss of battery capacity due to or resulting from gradual capacity loss is NOT covered under this warranty.

LEAF Batteries by AESC

I don’t think much comment is necessary as Nissan has pretty much outlined the policy itself, but the question of ‘what is acceptable gradual capacity loss’ remains.  Nissan has said there will be further information on this subject, but for now we continue to wait.  (As FYI, Nissan’s electric competitor, GM has at least partially disclosed how their warranty will work in regard to acceptable battery capacity loss on the Volt.  You can find that information here)

One this is for sure, Nissan wants to keep really close tabs on your car if you want to keep the warranty:

You are required to perform annual EV Battery Usage Report at intervals of 12 months, 24 months, 36 months, 48 months, 60 months, 72 months, and 84 months. These EV Battery Usage Reports can be performed by a Nissan LEAF certified dealer or any qualified repair shop facility. The 12 and 24 month EV Battery Usage Report will be performed at no charge to the customer, provided the work is done at a Nissan LEAF certified dealer. Any damage or failure resulting from a failure to have these required services performed, or that could have been avoided had these services been performed, is not covered under warranty. Any damage or failure resulting from a failure to have these required services performed, or that could have been avoided had these services been performed, is not covered under warranty.

57 Responses

  1. Tibor says:

    “Leaving your vehicle for over 14 days where the lithium-ion battery reaches a zero or near zero state of charge.”
    and
    “Charging the lithium-ion battery full on a daily basis despite the lithium-ion battery keeping a high state of charge level (98-100%).”

    I see a contradiction here: If I am out of town for a couple of weeks; leaving the car unplugged violates the first cited rule above, leaving the car plugged in violates the second?!

    (And I was kind of hoping the battery control unit in the car doesn’t allow charging any fully-charged battery?)

      (Quote)

  2. Richard says:

    I think Tibor makes a good point. They should have a storage mode that lets the battery drain down to what Nissan has found to be an optimal recharge level before charging it back up to prevent zero voltage.

      (Quote)

  3. L.P. says:

    “Opening the lithium-ion battery enclosure or having it serviced by someone other than a Nissan LEAF certified technician.” Is this legal? If you have your ICE vehicle serviced at an independent shop, it is my understanding that they can’t deny your warranty,so how can they void your battery warranty ?

      (Quote)

  4. Paul says:

    Well – that would seem to put northern state ownership in jeopardy. Here in Minnesota extended periods of severe cold are possible. 7 continuous days below -13F is extreme but I remember one winter back in the 80′s when we had about 5 days of night time lows at -25 and daytime highs at -15. I suppose one could put a heater in the garage for those periods. More than the warranty, one would really not want to expose there investment to damage. Would be nice if they had a heater for the battery pack…

      (Quote)

  5. xRB says:

    One this is for sure, Nissan wants to keep really close tabs on your car if you want to keep the warranty:
    .
    The requirements paragraph can be read in a positive or negative way. In the positive way, which I hope will be the case, they are closely monitoring the battery so as to be able to detect and remedy any failures or partial failures as soon as possible. In the negative way, which I fear will be the case, they are simply collecting evidence from your own car that any later failure was “gradual” rather than “sudden” in that they saw your battery decline start long before it became severe.
    .
    Or, it could be neither of the above, and Nissan is simply collecting information about battery life for its own corporate purposes. They don’t know how long these batteries will last and hope to gain some data from us.
    .
    Perhaps there will be some more clarification coming forward soon from Nissan. I hope so. What is needed is a formal definition of ‘gradual’.
    .
    As the warranty stands, I might buy a Leaf for my own use, as my interest is really driven more by curiosity than by anticipated durability or performance. I would keep my existing car and just add the Leaf as, in effect, an expensive toy.

    But as things stand I would not be able to recommend the car to others, as the warranty seems to be a document that really is a disclaimer of any responsibility for the battery.

      (Quote)

  6. Van says:

    It seems we have more questions than answers. The “normal” (i.e warranted) capacity loss graph over time and over usage is MIA. If the software does not allow recharge above 95%, how does one recharge fully daily maintaining the SOC above 98%. If a person crosses a flooded street with say 6 inches of water, does that mean the battery has been “immersed?” Are there two modes of recharge, one for long life, that a person normally uses, and one for maximum range (i.e above 90%) for occasional use but not on a “daily basis?”

      (Quote)

  7. xRB says:

     Charging the lithium-ion battery full on a daily basis despite the lithium-ion battery keeping a high state of charge level (98-100%).
    .
    You can hire the teen-age girl next door while you are on vacation, the one you now hire to feed your cat, to drive your car to the mall each day while you are gone. :)

      (Quote)

  8. xRB says:

    Van said:

    It seems we have more questions than answers.The “normal” (i.e warranted) capacity loss graph over time and over usage is MIA.If the software does not allow recharge above 95%, how does one recharge fully daily maintaining the SOC above 98%.If a person crosses a flooded street with say 6 inches of water, does that mean the battery has been “immersed?”Are there two modes of recharge, one for long life, that a person normally uses, and one for maximum range (i.e above 90%) for occasional use but not on a “daily basis?”  

    .
    All excellent questions. Let us hope that Nissan sees the wisdom of giving clear-cut answers to them before too long.

      (Quote)

  9. Herm says:

    .
    Or, it could be neither of the above, and Nissan is simply collecting information about battery life for its own corporate purposes.They don’t know how long these batteries will last and hope to gain some data from us.

    I think they know exactly how long the battery last, but it all depends on the driver.. so each market will be different and they need to get numbers. As an example we know that daily DOD % affects the life of the battery.. someone that drives 60 miles daily will pay for it compared to someone that only drives 20 miles.
    The BMS should be sophisticated enough to generate an estimate of the remaining life of the battery.. the question is what does the LEAF do with that data.

      (Quote)

  10. demetrius says:

    For Nissan to account for these warranty violations – they must have some sensors built in or a black box somewhere in the battery that records warranty violations. My point is, instead of having some kind of black box – why not make a smarter battery management system. The battery pack is worth 10 grand – how the heck am I going to drive around if I have to be careful never to get it too wet or too cold or too hot or too charged or too undercharged for too long or charged to fast or charged for too long or use the wrong plug (or any combination of these) .

    Maybe this really is a Southern California car after all…

      (Quote)

  11. Van said:
    It seems we have more questions than answers. The “normal” (i.e warranted) capacity loss graph over time and over usage is MIA. If the software does not allow recharge above 95%, how does one recharge fully daily maintaining the SOC above 98%. If a person crosses a flooded street with say 6 inches of water, does that mean the battery has been “immersed?” Are there two modes of recharge, one for long life, that a person normally uses, and one for maximum range (i.e above 90%) for occasional use but not on a “daily basis?”  (Quote)

    The warranted capacity loss is a big one, I agree. For myself personally, until I see the warranty and understand how it will relate to me, I am going to lease my LEAF when it arrives…and it is no secret I am no fan of leases.

    Even though I hate burning money and have always owned my vehicles outright, an extra thousand dollars in the big picture on a lease is sort of like printing your own battery warranty, so that has value. I will just balloon one initial payment to cover the term of the lease to avoid the interest and take the hit on the fees.

      (Quote)

  12. mark smith says:

    “Leaving your vehicle for over 14 days where the lithium-ion battery reaches a zero or near zero state of charge.”and“Charging the lithium-ion battery full on a daily basis despite the lithium-ion battery keeping a high state of charge level (98-100%).”I see a contradiction here: If I am out of town for a couple of weeks; leaving the car unplugged violates the first cited rule above, leaving the car plugged in violates the second?!(And I was kind of hoping the battery control unit in the car doesn’t allow charging any fully-charged battery?)  (Quote)

    No makes perfect sense… the battery if say at 1/4 charge would take months for the charge to “dissapear” to 0%. What they are saying is – if you run it flat – charge it promptly.
    Also what they’re saying is if you’re not using the car – don’t keep plugging it in to charge as this will damage the battery.
    If you went on holiday for 2 weeks and when you left the charge rate was <5-10% then you "could" damage the battery.
    Basically charge it a bit before you go on holiday – then unplug it. Not too complicated.

      (Quote)

  13. mark smith says:

    and they’re also saying – d

    No makes perfect sense… the battery if say at 1/4 charge would take months for the charge to “dissapear” to 0%. What they are saying is – if you run it flat – charge it promptly.Also what they’re saying is if you’re not using the car – don’t keep plugging it in to charge as this will damage the battery.If you went on holiday for 2 weeks and when you left the charge rate was <5-10% then you “could” damage the battery.Basically charge it a bit before you go on holiday – then unplug it. Not too complicated.  (Quote)

    and I think they also mean don’t drive 1 mile (to drop it to 98%) then charge it again. So if you’re doing 1 mile trips DON’T charge it every day – once a week would be fine… I would have thought this would be pretty sensible.

      (Quote)

  14. erg4all says:

    Perhaps we can make an assumption on this point but it may be worth stating. In Phoenix the asphalt can easily exceed 120 degrees (usually somewhere around 140 degrees when the air temp may only be 110 degrees which happens often in summer). What I wonder is the 24 hours cumulative or not? It seems to me that if it degrades at temperatures over 120 degrees that any instance might degrade the battery some. My understanding is that the LEAF only has a fan for cooling the battery pack. Perhaps when using the A/C some of that is diverted to the battery. However, once parked before the shade of the vehicle has had a chance to cool down the parking space under the LEAF it seems to me it could exceed 120 degrees. If that happens is this warning cumulative or not?

      (Quote)

  15. Tibor says:

    So if you’re doing 1 mile trips DON’T charge it every day – once a week would be fine…

    Yes, you are perfectly correct Mark. Now I get what they mean.

    …still it would be better if the charger simply didn’t charge the car if it had just gone 1 mile, instead of me voiding the warranty.

    If I leave a Leaf plugged in for a month – what will happen?

      (Quote)

  16. Tall Pete says:

    «Storing a vehicle in temperatures below -13F (-25C) for over seven days.»

    Obviously, this car is not ready for Canada. Let’s see how they tweak the thing for a colder climate. My wife’s car has to be changed next year. The Leaf is tempting and frightening at the same time…

      (Quote)

  17. Tall Pete says:

    My wife’s car has to be changed next year.

    And she likes the looks of the car. What do you know…

      (Quote)

  18. xRB says:

    statik says:

    Even though I hate burning money and have always owned my vehicles outright, an extra thousand dollars in the big picture on a lease is sort of like printing your own battery warranty, so that has valu

    .
    Even though I understand what you are saying and perhaps will do likewise, it does seem to me that Nissan can do better than what they have done so far, and it also seems to me that it is in their own interest to do so. I hope they will.

      (Quote)

  19. stuart22 says:

    «Storing a vehicle in temperatures below -13F (-25C) for over seven days.»Obviously, this car is not ready for Canada. Let’s see how they tweak the thing for a colder climate. My wife’s car has to be changed next year. The Leaf is tempting and frightening at the same time…  

    You might look at the Focus EV which has an active temperature management system for the battery, and supposedly will be available later next year. GM even might surprise everyone with a Cruze EV in about a year….

      (Quote)

  20. xRB says:

    herm said:

    I think they know exactly how long the battery last,

    .
    Perhaps so, and I defer to your judgment because you know a lot more about this than I do. The reason that I wonder is that it seems to me a new ‘experiment’ to have a new kind of battery, with a new kind of battery maintenance system, out on the road in all sorts of weather, with all sorts of drivers. That is, I wonder how well Nissan’s experience to date predicts this new situation. Well, maybe pretty well, but there has to be some uncertainty, and obviously their confidence is not strong enough to back it up with a strong warranty statement.

      (Quote)

  21. Jobbeur says:

    You might look at the Focus EV which has an active temperature management system for the battery, and supposedly will be available later next year.GM even might surprise everyone with a Cruze EV in about a year….  

    In Canada, it sure is a deal breaker if the cold climate package can’t handle the battery’s temperature. If it’s too cold, I hope some kind of heating wire can rise the temperature inside the pack (even unplugged). Any chance there might be that kind of feature?

    Anyway, for a car that is suppose to have a little or no maintenance (compared to ICE), the “Plug the car but not too often or too long” will confuse normal people. If I was working at Nissan, I would urge a software improvement in order to prevent that kind of charging habits damaging the pack or at least an iPhone apps that says you :
    “Unplug me fool!”
    “I’m freezing my a$$ here!”

      (Quote)

  22. statik says:

    xRB said:
    statik says:.Even though I understand what you are saying and perhaps will do likewise, it does seem to me that Nissan can do better than what they have done so far, and it also seems to me that it is in their own interest to do so. I hope they will.  (Quote)

    I’m with you here. Hopefully, this information about acceptable losses will indeed be forthcoming before we get the cars. Even the GM information on the Volt we found, had to be dug out of relative obscurity, and now that they have updated the website, I have totally lost track of how to find it now at all. I think it is a real love-hate relationship between auto manufacturers and batteries.

    However, for myself at least, nothing is going to stop me from buying (or leasing) the first available BEV when the start shipping. Once that is accomplished, and more cars hit the road, I will become ‘choosey’ like I am for any ICE vehicle.

    If lithium batteries end up being as reliable as they say they are, I probably will not place any more weight on the warranty as I do for petrol cars (3-60 or 5-100, I really don’t care that much if I prefer one car over another)….but that is still a very big question.

      (Quote)

  23. demetrius says:

    Volt: ‘Moon Shot’ (Motor Trend)

    Does that make the Leaf a Moon Buggy…

      (Quote)

  24. xRB says:

    However, for myself at least, nothing is going to stop me from buying (or leasing) the first available BEV when the start shipping. Once that is accomplished, and more cars hit the road, I will become ‘choosey’ like I am for any ICE vehicle.

    .
    I agree and plan to do likewise. Simple curiosity :)

      (Quote)

  25. demetrius said:
    Volt: ‘Moon Shot’ (Motor Trend)

    Does that make the Leaf a Moon Buggy…  (Quote)

    Congrats to the Volt. Anything electric-ish winning the car of the year is pretty A-OK in my book. Here is the link to the official Motor Trend Car of the Year Award article.

    I always like looking back at picks, just for fun, to see how they hold up over time.

    Past Motor Trend Car of the Year Winners:
    2011 Chevrolet Volt
    2010 Ford Fusion
    2009 Nissan GT-R
    2008 Cadillac CTS
    2007 Toyota Camry
    2006 Honda Civic
    2005 Chrysler 300
    2004 Toyota Prius
    2003 Infiniti G35
    2002 Ford Thunderbird
    2001 Chrysler PT Cruiser
    2000 Lincoln LS
    1999 Chrysler 300M
    1998 Chevrolet Corvette
    1997 Chevrolet Malibu
    1996 Dodge Caravan
    1995 Chrysler Cirrus

      (Quote)

  26. xRB says:

    demetrius:

    Volt: ‘Moon Shot’ (Motor Trend)
    Does that make the Leaf a Moon Buggy…  

    .
    More like Mars rover :)

      (Quote)

  27. N Riley says:

    On the good side, by the time the Leaf is available in my “neck of the woods” many of these questions will be answered and we will know if the Leaf is worth purchasing. So, all you early purchasers, go at it and get some answers.

      (Quote)

  28. TRONZ says:

    There are alot of chargers that actively condition battery packs. I will be very interested in seeing what the LEAF does automatically to protect its battery from entering a harmful “state”. It is a given that the LEAF will record everything that ever happens to it but what does it do to help you PREVENT damage and help protect it??? Will it text your iPhone and give you a warning when the pack is getting too hot or cold, discharge level to low over time, etc. A bit of active support and coaching from the car would be very helpful… and sorta cool!

      (Quote)

  29. stuart22 says:

    Volt: ‘Moon Shot’ (Motor Trend)
    Does that make the Leaf a Moon Buggy…  

    It could be called the Space Shuttle Columbia for all the battery worries it seems….

      (Quote)

  30. Carcus says:

    From the Nissan Leaf Quick Reference Guide, p. 4:

    1. “To keep the Li-ion battery in good condition, charge the battery once every 3 months using the long life mode charging method.”

    – I wonder what owner action is required for this? ……. my laptop recommends “calibrating the battery” every couple of months by taking it from full charge down to empty, letting it sleep for 5 hours or more, then recharging it all the way back to full.

    2. “The Li-ion Battery Capacity Level Gauge indicates the amount of charge the Li-ion battery is capable of storing.”

    – So the outside arc is a gauge as well, telling the total capacity available as the battery degrades over time (?). I wonder if this on board gauge will be the ruler used (as opposed to a capacitance check with shop equipment) when determining if there is a warranty event?

    3. “The temperature of the Li-ion battery is in the normal range when the display is within this zone.”

    – I’m going to infer that the red zone starts at 120 deg F and the blue zone starts at – 13 deg F (?).

    4. “To protect the battery, power is reduced when the temperature of the battery is too high or low. This does not indicate a malfunction.”

    – So the Leaf’s on-board systems cut power available if the temperature starts to get out of limits. Wonder if there will be some owner action prescribed in the owner’s manual as well?

      (Quote)

  31. PaulM says:

    Many people seem to have a lot of criticism about the conditions on the battery warranty but to me none of them are show stoppers.

    1. Exposing a vehicle to ambient temperatures above 120F (49C) for over 24 hours.
    This has to be consecutive so is there really anywhere is NA where it stays above 120F over night?

    2. Storing a vehicle in temperatures below -13F (-25C) for over seven days.
    I’m from northern Ontario and having seven consecutive says where the temperature doesn’t go over -13F is highly unlikely. Furthermore, this is for STORING i.e. not using the car for seven days. If you choose to store the car for an extended period of time, you will most likely will be storing it in a garage and even an unheated garage will maintain a higher temperature.

    3. Leaving your vehicle for over 14 days … zero state of charge.
    Leave the car plugged in. There is talk of a storage mode (unproven at this time) but there is a documented charge mode to 80%.

    4. Physical damage…
    non issue.

    5. Exposing the battery to a flame…
    non issue.

    6. Charging the … battery full on a daily basis…
    This one isn’t very clear but I think they are saying if you do very short trips you should use the 80% charge mode. This one really needs to be re-worded.

    7. Immersing any portion…
    Part of the testing of the battery pack was immersing the complete pack into ice-cold water so to me this is a non issue. How are they going to prove this?

    8. Opening the…
    Why would you want to open the pack if it is still under warranty?

    The only missing information is the gradual capacity loss curve which should be available soon, right?

      (Quote)

  32. Carcus says:

    The battery warranty is the real biggy (imo) as far as the success of BEV’s are concerned.

    We’ve seen lots of indications that the price issue is getting handled, and I personally think that range anxiety is effectively handled by integrated BMS and GPS nav. But the battery life ?????????????

    If you can use the car for 10 or 12K miles/year with something in the neighborhood of 2% per year degradation on the battery then the battery will have effectively lasted the “life” of the car –i..e you would still have a 60+ mile AER car at the 16 year point with 160,000+ miles on the car.

    If, on the other hand, the battery is down to 50% capacity by the 10 year point and you’re looking at $8,000+ for a battery replacement, then efficient ICE and hybrids or maybe a plug in hybrid with a small battery (like the plug in prius) will look like a better option.

      (Quote)

  33. PaulM said:
    Many people seem to have a lot of criticism about the conditions on the battery warranty but to me none of them are show stoppers.

    1. Exposing a vehicle to ambient temperatures above 120F (49C) for over 24 hours.
    This has to be consecutive so is there really anywhere is NA where it stays above 120F over night?

    2. Storing a vehicle in temperatures below -13F (-25C) for over seven days.
    I’m from northern Ontario and having seven consecutive says where the temperature doesn’t go over -13F is highly unlikely. Furthermore, this is for STORING i.e. not using the car for seven days. If you choose to store the car for an extended period of time, you will most likely will be storing it in a garage and even an unheated garage will maintain a higher temperature.

    3. Leaving your vehicle for over 14 days … zero state of charge.
    Leave the car plugged in. There is talk of a storage mode (unproven at this time) but there is a documented charge mode to 80%.

    4. Physical damage…
    non issue.

    5. Exposing the battery to a flame…
    non issue.

    6. Charging the … battery full on a daily basis…
    This one isn’t very clear but I think they are saying if you do very short trips you should use the 80% charge mode. This one really needs to be re-worded.

    7. Immersing any portion…
    Part of the testing of the battery pack was immersing the complete pack into ice-cold water so to me this is a non issue. How are they going to prove this?

    8. Opening the…
    Why would you want to open the pack if it is still under warranty?

    The only missing information is the gradual capacity loss curve which should be available soon, right?  (Quote)

    Sorry Paul, I’m not sure how your comment got caught up in moderation. /fixed

    All good points…thanks.

      (Quote)

  34. curt says:

    There are several things to keep in mind to extend your battery pack:
    1) Frequency of charge – if you do short trips, only charge after doing many of them (as stated before). Don’t charge at every opportunity. Drive the battery down to 25%. In my case the use of this car would be in two modes: 1) short trips during weekends (errand runs); and when it rains (still can’t beat motorcycles for commute time) I will commute to work (52 miles each way but I can plug at work). Chances are I can reduce my charge frequency to about once every 2 weeks (except for those rainy days).
    2) thermal considerations – no problem for me in S. California so not going to sweat this consideration. What will be interesting is seeing how laminated prismatic batteries hold up (they are more stable than Tesla’s old style cylindrical battery approach – not counting active thermal management). If you can get away without thermal management I’m for it (less complexity and less that can go wrong).
    3) Full charging – Only do a full charge if you expect to take long trip soon after the charge (sure hope the weatherman gets it right for me). Otherwise, in my 2 week charging cycle I will only charge the batteries to 80% SOC (figure that is 2 bars down or so on the meter). Since Nissan allows us to program the charge duration or KWH amount this should be no problem (simple math).
    4) Minimize thermal gradients – don’t be a hot rodder, be a granny driving the car (can we say hyper-miler). I’m only a hot-rodder on my motorcycle, 4 wheel vehicles I drive conservatively for reduce consumption.
    Holding to the 4 above statements I fully expect at least 10 years out of the battery.

      (Quote)

  35. JEff says:

    Interesting – Chrylser (including its Dodge divisionhas 5 of the 17 on that list, almost 1/3. And yet …..

    Congrats to the Volt. Anything electric-ish winning the car of the year is pretty A-OK in my book. Here is the link to the official Motor Trend Car of the Year Award article.I always like looking back at picks, just for fun, to see how they hold up over time.Past Motor Trend Car of the Year Winners:2011 Chevrolet Volt2010 Ford Fusion2009 Nissan GT-R2008 Cadillac CTS2007 Toyota Camry2006 Honda Civic2005 Chrysler 3002004 Toyota Prius2003 Infiniti G352002 Ford Thunderbird2001 Chrysler PT Cruiser2000 Lincoln LS1999 Chrysler 300M1998 Chevrolet Corvette1997 Chevrolet Malibu1996 Dodge Caravan1995 Chrysler Cirrus

      (Quote)

  36. JEff says:

    It’s legal, and it’s common. Not common with automobiles, perhaps, but look at the warrantees for most electronic products. And a L-I battery pack is … ?

    “Opening the lithium-ion battery enclosure or having it serviced by someone other than a Nissan LEAF certified technician.” Is this legal?

      (Quote)

  37. JEff says:

    Yes, they do have sensors and a black box recording the conditions that the battery has been subjected to. And once a year to are required to have that information read off and reviewed with you. They want to make a smarter user out of you, let you know if you’ve been doing things that are detrimental to the longevity of the battery pack and, if you have been abusing it, let you know about it so that you can correct your ways.

    From the Service and Maintenance Guide:
    To maximize the life of your Li-ion battery,
    have the EV Battery Usage Report
    generated and reviewed with
    you. Review of the EV Battery Usage
    Report is required as a condition of
    EV battery warranty.

    For Nissan to account for these warranty violations – they must have some sensors built in or a black box somewhere in the battery that records warranty violations. My point is, instead of having some kind of black box – why not make a smarter battery management system.

      (Quote)

  38. Herm says:

    Leave the car plugged in. There is talk of a storage mode (unproven at this time) but there is a documented charge mode to 80%.

    Is there a link for this?

      (Quote)

  39. Herm says:

    Review of the EV Battery Usage
    Report is required as a condition of
    EV battery warranty.
     

    This kind of forced training is unheard of in the US, expect lots of legal angst. Nissan needs to automate this so you dont have to think.

      (Quote)

  40. Herm says:

    “Charging the lithium-ion battery full on a daily basis despite the lithium-ion battery keeping a high state of charge level (98-100%).”

    There is only a couple of ways I can see that this hurts the battery:

    1. the battery is always at 100%.. this ages the battery prematurely.
    2. a driver that keeps trying to “top off” a battery that is already full, the BMS should be smart enough to prevent this.. btw, this is a common way to kill nicads and nimh cells.. eventually the charger gets confused and attempts to charge up a fully charged battery, but it is relatively simple to prevent with lithum-ion.

    I think there must be a full 100 mile mode of charging and Nissan does not want you to use it routinely.. but there are anxious people that will want that full 100 miles of insurance all the time. This is the consumer education they want to put thru, GM deals with this by never allowing you to charge up to 100%.. no matter what.

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  41. PaulM says:

    Herm, I don’t have a link to info in regards to the storage mode (I don’t even remember where I read it) but the procedure to charge to 80% is described in the Carwings manual on page 11. (http://nissan-leaf.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/carwings_1-12.pdf)

    Anyone doing short trips should always charge to 80% and only charge to 100% if they know they will need to go farther than say 50 miles. Discharging the battery too low is also bad for the battery and having some reserve is a good idea.

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  42. Herm says:

    Thanks Paul, I found a post by EVNOW

    http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1732&start=20

    “The menu allows two types of charge setup
    - Start & End time
    - 100% or 80% max”

    I prefer how Tesla did it, you hit a button on the “wall mounted fancy charging cord” when you want a 100% charge.

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  43. Bill says:

    Erg4all, there is no fan inside the battery pack…no fan at all anywhere for the battery cooling. It uses passive air cooling. And why would anyone park their LEAF outside on a 110 degree day on hot pavement for 24 hours or more? Once the car is parked on that hot asphalt, the asphalt will cool down with the shade given by the underside of the car. If I were in Phoenix, I wouldn’t worry about that at all.

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  44. mark smith says:

    There’s a company called Valence that have a Lithium Iron Phosphate battery on their website. It seems very similar to the Leaf battery (it can charge between 0-100%) and is approved for use in vechiles (does not go through “thermal-runaway” if damaged). They have some interesting graphs showing charge drop rates for 20C and 35C. Basically – charged in a warmer climate the battery capacity drops faster than in a 20C climate. After 1000 charges at 20C capacity is 90%, after 2000 charges its 80%. At 35C its closer to 70% after 2000 charges… the relationship is linear…
    therefore – and assuming age doesn’t affect the battery – then If you charge your car twice weekly (100 per year) then it’s going to take 20 YEARS to drop to 80% or 70% in a very hot climate. Charging every day it might last 7 years to 80%.

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  45. mark smith says:

    There’s a company called Valence that have a Lithium Iron Phosphate battery on their website. It seems very similar to the Leaf battery (it can charge between 0-100%) and is approved for use in vechiles (does not go through “thermal-runaway” if damaged). They have some interesting graphs showing charge drop rates for 20C and 35C. Basically – charged in a warmer climate the battery capacity drops faster than in a 20C climate. After 1000 charges at 20C capacity is 90%, after 2000 charges its 80%. At 35C its closer to 70% after 2000 charges… the relationship is linear…therefore – and assuming age doesn’t affect the battery – then If you charge your car twice weekly (100 per year) then it’s going to take 20 YEARS to drop to 80% or 70% in a very hot climate. Charging every day it might last 7 years to 80%.  (Quote)

    Oops, examples they use are 23C and 45C (very hot day!) and it takes 2500 cycles to hit 80% at 23C… so even more than the 2000 I thought it said.
    Also the chemistry is LiFeMgPO – which I think is Lithium Iron Manganese Phosphate – and similar to the Leaf’s.
    Check out the 3rd graph on this page.
    http://www.valence.com/LiFeMgPO4/why-lithium-iron-magnesium-phosphate/technology
    I would bet money that the Leaf’s battery has a similar performance to this.
    Remember also that the Leaf battery pack is a sealed case – probably insulated as they have done exposure in ice water tests. This means that it takes a long time for it to heat up / cool down – so is somewhat resistant to very high/low temperatures.
    I also echo what other say – the UK can fall to -10C in the winter, sometimes -15C in extremes but garages are unlikely to get as cold, often not falling below 0C or -5C in these conditions – especially if they share a wall with the house.

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  46. JEff says:

    Agreed that Americans, and people in general world wide, don’t like to be forced to do anything. Whether or no it’s in their best interests.

    Agreed also that Americans in particular don’t seem to want to have to think these days. They’d pretty much like to have some one or some thing do all the thinking and relieve them of that burden of life.

    This kind of forced training is unheard of in the US, expect lots of legal angst. Nissan needs to automate this so you dont have to think.

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