First LEAF Owner Review Gives Updates on Nissan Leaf’s Performance

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Nissan Chairman Tavares & Olivier Chalouhi shake hands at first LEAF delivery

After receiving his LEAF this past weekend, Olivier Chalouhi has been actively answering questions and posting his various ventures/experiences with the car on MyNissanLeaf.com. After riding around in the car and testing it out, Chalouhi believes that Carlos Ghosn was right when he said “once you buy one EV, you won’t go back to ICE.” Being that Olivier is not on Nissan’s payroll, it’s refreshing to get his view on things. Here’s a rundown of some of the interesting findings the new owner has made so far.

Olivier is more than happy with his purchase. He has vehemently stated that there’s no chance that he’s ever going back to his day-to-day car. He writes,  “I chose it [the LEAF] because it’s electric, but if it wasn’t but still had the same characteristics (noise, acceleration, comfort, equipment, price), I would buy it.”  He goes on to say, “Electric cars are by FAR superior.”

Chalouhi compared the vehicle to his wife’s Ford Fit, stating that the LEAF is more comfortable, better equipped and is much more silent.”I also think that you have a lower perception of speed in the LEAF(ie, 40 mph feels slow in the LEAF given lack of noise, and it’s a bigger car),” Olivier writes. “After 70mph, I’d have to compare the 2 for real. Intuition tells me that the fit accelerates slower, but I could be wrong.”

As far as range goes, Chalouhi says be prepared to see your mileage vary. On one trip Olivier left his home with 82 miles of range remaining and when he returned home, he had the same amount even though he had driven 10 miles.  On a separate occasion Olivier recalls starting the morning on a full battery with the dashboard reading 96 miles, but when he turned on climate control, it dropped to approximately 85 miles. “If you want to cruise on the highway at 75+ mph, then you should not hope to get more than 50-60 miles of range, with light climate control,” Chalouhi writes.

One very important thing Olivier mentioned on the forum, is that you get less regen when the battery is full. Chalouhi gave a thorough recollection of when he first noticed this. He writes, ” I went to work via El Camino Real this morning, 10 miles on a 35mph road, with light traffic, so I was going between 25 and 40 mph. I ended with more range than I started with (in eco mode, climate control off), and average mileage at 4.5 miles / KWH. This number would IMPROVE as I drive more on the same charge, as I’ve noticed that regen is limited based on battery state of charge.”

All of the findings mentioned above, occurred over the span of four days.

Chalouhi gives insight on some FAQs about the LEAF’s specifics:

Tracking miles: “The main problem though is tracking miles … honestly, I’m simply using the car, and it’s a little bit of a hassle to look at how much I’m driving.”   Chalouhi mentioned that he forgot to reset the counter on his LEAF one morning before leaving. As he result, he ran into the same issue he had with his electric bicycle…he forgot how many miles he had left.

Recharge timer: “When setting your recharge timer(s), you can set a charge limit. There might be a custom entry, but the 2 offered by default are : “100%” : maximize your range, or “80%” : maximize your battery life.” Olivier also says that you can assign days of the week to your times. For example, you can charge 80% Sunday through Thursday and opt for a charge of 100% on Fridays and Saturdays.

ECO mode: “…is way less fun than regular (actually ECO mode makes you feel you’re driving a regular car in terms of performance).”

Climate control: “If you turn on climate control while the vehicle is plugged, is seems that it turns itself off automatically as soon as you unplug the car.” Olivier states that remote climate control seems to work the same way whether you are plugged in or not.

Voice command/recognition: “…is not that great … it works, but the user flow is sometimes cumbersome.”

Bluetooth connection: “The bluetooth connection is great (music, phone, contacts) and works perfectly with the iPhone.”  Chalouhi states that being on the phone in the LEAF is ” the best communication experience you’ll experience.”

Although Chalouhi loves his LEAF and he’s glad he bought it, but he does not recommend the vehicle for individuals with a daily commute over 25 miles each way, this of course being at freeway speed. Chalouhi also said, “The way I drive, my LEAF knows I can’t make 100 miles,” so that is something to keep in mind as well. As Olivier and the other first LEAF owners continue to share their experiences with the vehicle, we will continue to share them with you.  Just the facts of course.

Source: MyNissanLeaf.com

Photo Credit: Nissan LEAF

87 Responses

  1. Jimza Skeptic says:

    He will never go back to his day-to-day car? I thought he rode an electric bike every day per one of his interviews. He also stated that they will need to use his wife’s car extensively for many trips in another interview. Highway – he expects to only get 50 mile total range on freeway? I am not sure that is really a ringing endorsement of the technology. But maybe it is…. ;-)

      (Quote)

  2. Carcus says:

    As far as range goes,….

    Oliver’s info gives us 2 examples:
    - 82 + 10 = 92
    - 96 falling to 85 with climate control = 85

    Taking an average of the two we get (92 + 85)/2 = 88.5. So, exactly the same thing Edmund’s is reporting.

    ” During our test period the Leaf consistently indicated a range of approximately 88 miles, even with much of our driving at highway speeds.”

    http://www.edmunds.com/nissan/leaf/2011/road-test2.html

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  3. Carcus says:

    He will never go back to his day-to-day car?I thought he rode an electric bike every day per one of his interviews.He also stated that they will need to use his wife’s car extensively for many trips in another interview.Highway – he expects to only get 50 mile total range on freeway?I am not sure that is really a ringing endorsement of the technology.But maybe it is….   

    The trouble with ringing endorsements is that they usually come from someone with an agenda. Take for instance Lyle’s driving log on the Volt. Lyle used to be a hard and fast aggressive driver (remember when he kept stomping on, and breaking the mini-e’s transmission?). Now that he’s driving the Volt, seems that his driving tactics have turned from wild to mild.

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  4. Van says:

    Thanks for the informative report. It seems to avoid the “battery abuse” warranty issue, we must use the 80% charge – maximize your battery life – mode. So if 73 miles in the range with 100% charge, then 58 miles would figure to be the “everyday” range. It is becoming increasingly clear that the second generation Leaf needs to nearly double the range.

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  5. Van says:

    One other point, the Leaf does reduce energy cost, electricity costs about $1.00 per gallon. And the routine maintenance costs are expected to be lower – no oil change and valve cover gasket leak repairs – but this appears to be offset by a significant battery refurbishment cost. Lets speculate the 2d gen Leaf sports a 42 Kwh battery that costs about $325 per Kwh. And each year we must put aside 10% of that cost such that after 8 years we could restore the battery to near full capacity. So a $800 dollar per year refurbishment cost would pretty much eat the energy savings. Still a good deal all things considered, clean air and less terrorist funding/motivation.

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  6. Buzz says:

    One other point, the Leaf does reduce energy cost, electricity costs about $1.00 per gallon.And the routine maintenance costs are expected to be lower – no oil change and valve cover gasket leak repairs – but this appears to be offset by a significant battery refurbishment cost….   

    It will be interesting to see if the normal battery degradation (< 40% over 8yrs) becomes the real range anxiety for owners. Then the tension will be between a far better, more reliable, driving experience than ICE with the nagging concern that you won't be able to make your commute distance in more 3 yrs. It's the kind of fear that plays into manufacturers leasing the battery but selling the car. I forget if this is still the Think model but I expect to see that being offered by Nissan in a couple of years.

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  7. Herm says:

    Sharon, Ford Fit?.. perhaps he meant a Honda Fit.

    Jimza Skeptic says:
    He also stated that they will need to use his wife’s car extensively for many trips in another interview. Highway – he expects to only get 50 mile total range on freeway?

    Jimza, your mileage will vary. Apparently Olivier likes it sporty.

    Van says:
    So if 73 miles in the range with 100% charge, then 58 miles would figure to be the “everyday” range. It is becoming increasingly clear that the second generation Leaf needs to nearly double the range.

    Only if you regularly drive more than that daily, do you?… do you think Nissan should offer a longer range option on the LEAF?.. how much more would you be willing to pay?..

    Wayne Gedes, the hypermiler king was getting an (extrapolated) range of 160 miles on his test LEAF.

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  8. Herm says:

    It will be interesting to see if the normal battery degradation (< 40% over 8yrs) becomes the real range anxiety for owners. T

    Buzz, that is just the warranty, not a normal battery degradation.. probably a worst case scenario. Goshn has stated several times that the battery life will be 20% degradation in 10 years.. some will do better, some worst but on average most people will get that.

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  9. stuart22 says:

    The trouble with ringing endorsements is that they usually come from someone with an agenda.Take for instance Lyle’s driving log on the Volt.Lyle used to be a hard and fast aggressive driver (remember when he kept stomping on, and breaking the mini-e’s transmission?).Now that he’s driving the Volt, seems that his driving tactics have turned from wild to mild.  

    Lyle’s habits with the Volt are far from mild – 70+ freeway, always in sport mode – what’s mild is the penalty for wild driving….. gas is burned, but he’s still driving down the road getting to where he needs to go. Obviously the same can’t be said with the LEAF.

    If anyone has an agenda for EVs it would be somebody who also owns an electric bicycle. So it was very interesting Chalouhi admitted the LEAF won’t work for many people.

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  10. Carcus says:

    70+ freeway,

    WRONG

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  11. Carcus says:

    Lyle hot-rodding the Volt at 70+ on the freeway — that’s a lie. Isn’t it Stuart22?

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  12. stuart22 says:

    WRONG  

    OK – Lyle says ‘between 60 and 70mph’ in his drive report – not exactly ‘mild’ as you called it. So far Lyle’s gone over 2000 miles. He has days where his EV miles have dipped into the high 20′s; the past few days his EV miles have been in the mid 40′s. Over 2100 miles he’s used just a tick under 15 gallons of gasoline, or in other words, he’s driven 141 miles for every gallon of gasoline he’s used. Not too shabby.

    The Volt is proving to be exactly what it was meant to be – a car that allows its owner to use significantly less oil than any other car on the market (BEV’s excluded) while at the same time having unlimited range. Unlike BEVs, a Volt does not require a driver to make adjustments to one’s driving habits and driving patterns.

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  13. Van says:

    Hi Herm, no I usually drive way less than 25 miles per day. However, comma, I drive once a week up to Long Beach for about 4 hours, then drive home, a little less than 120 miles round trip. So the NMC Leaf would work for me initially, but as Buzz observed, I might experience range anxiety after the first few years.

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  14. Tall Pete says:

    The Volt is proving to be exactly what it was meant to be – a car that allows its owner to use significantly less oil than any other car on the market (BEV’s excluded) while at the same time having unlimited range. Unlike BEVs, a Volt does not require a driver to make adjustments to one’s driving habits and driving patterns.

    The Volt is a wonderful transitional car that is introducing the Electric Vehicule for those who don’t want to live with the BEV shortcomings.

    The Leaf is a leap to the new world and it fits the needs of a lot of customers. BEVs in general and the Leaf in particular will trigger a lot of research in battery technology that will eventually lead to a lot more range for less dollars.

    Both cars have a purpose and are necessary at this time.

      (Quote)

  15. stuart22 says:

    ……Unlike BEVs, a Volt does not require a driver to make adjustments to one’s driving habits and driving patterns.  

    And that is why BEVs like the LEAF are not ready for mass market acceptability, while the Volt and its EREV offspring will enjoy long-term sales success.

    The irony here is that the EREV concept will buy time for the mass market to become more open to plugging in each night and for battery technology to improve to a point where range and cost limitations are gone. There will be a day when pure BEVs become accepted by the mass market and may even supplant EREVs as not being needed – but that day is not now. Now is the time for the Volt to shine, and for EV purists to be patient and realize their day may not yet be here, but it is closer than ever.

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  16. DonC says:

    Just for some context, in CA commuting speeds are generally 10 MPH or 70+ MPH. If your’e not stuck in a jam, going 60 MPH in the right lane can be dangerous, and 65 MPH isn’t going to get you to one of the two fast lanes. If you want to minimize you’commuting time 70-80 MPH is reasonable. So he’s not driving insanely fast or anything. He’s just driving normally.

    I don’t see how a range of 50-60 miles turns into a range of 90 miles. Yes you can get 90 miles driving around the burbs, but his point of that if you’re commuting using the freeways then your one way range will be 25 miles unless you’re willing to pull into your garage in turtle mode.

    Comparing Lyle’s driving style with Oliver’s is pointless since they live in entirely different places, but it’s easy to compare the range of the Volt and the Leaf. Just assume that the Volt’s range is halve that of the Leaf’s. If you can drive the Leaf 100 miles then the Volt will go 50 miles in CD Mode. If you can only drive the Leaf 50 miles then assume the Volt will only go 25 miles in CD Mode. But note that this is only when the Leaf is new. As time goes on the Leaf’s range will shrink but the Volt’s won’t. (Unless Nissan is holding something back).

    Let’s give Oliver and Lyle credit for telling it like it is rather than sniping at them because we don’t like the message. Personally I’m still stoked about the Leaf but (1) I took the 100 mile range marketing message with a large grain of salt; (2) I’m only planning on needing at most a 25 mile roundtrip commute (at 75+ MPH!); and (3) I’m leasing.

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  17. DonC says:

    And that is why BEVs like the LEAF are not ready for mass market acceptability

    BEVs may only be a niche market but that niche is large. On most days both my wife and I could use a Leaf, and that’s true for the vast majority of my neighbors. I’m willing to accept that I’m probably in the absolutely ideal area for an EV since the climate and commuting patterns are very co-operative, but lots of people could use a BEV, especially for a second or third car. (This is a small sample, but my neighbor across the street has ordered a Leaf and one of the neighbors next to me are planning on ordering one — that’s a higher penetration rate than even BMWs.)

    Yes just about anyone could use a Volt, but as Tall Pete says, there is plenty of room for both BEVs and EREVs.

    BTW it’s strange that I’m disagreeing with you since according to Tronz we’re the same person. Ba ha ha ha ha ha ha!

      (Quote)

  18. stuart22 says:

    BTW it’s strange that I’m disagreeing with you since according to Tronz we’re the same person. Ba ha ha ha ha ha ha!  

    Tronz is delusional, I’m prettier. :smile:

    I understand what you mean by the niche being large in that a 90-100 mile range would cover the needs of many, but range is only one of the concerns that’ll limit BEV demand on a large scale. A BEV requires owners to make major changes in their relationship with their automobile. They have an entirely different rhythm to which a new owner will be forced to adjust – e.g. their refueling downtime is way longer than their road time; their refueling (charging) downtime is way longer than a standard car’s refueling time. In a sense, BEV’s are like certain very beautiful women in both being high maintenance items but with very special payoffs.

    I see that high maintenance factor outweighing the payoff side for the majority of that large niche you maintain exists — for now. I see it taking another several years with a number of starts and stops until BEVs find their foothold that’ll cement their position in the market. The LEAF may fizzle out – but that won’t close down the market for EV’s as long as the Volt’s success builds. Others will be drawn into the market trying to latch on, and at some point there will be an EV that finds the right price point where lasting acceptance happens. My view is that’ll be somewhere between $17K-20K with young first-time buyers a significant chunk of the demand.

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  19. Carcus says:

    I don’t see how a range of 50-60 miles turns into a range of 90 miles

    I’d suggest that anyone who thinks Olivier is telling us “the range of the Leaf is 50 miles” take the time to read ALL of his comments.

    The 50 miles of range is most certainly NOT his message.

    http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1976

      (Quote)

  20. Carcus says:

    They have an entirely different rhythm to which a new owner will be forced to adjust – e.g. their refueling downtime is way longer than their road time

    So I’m guessing you’re the type of person who plugs in his cell phone and just stands there and stares at it until it’s fully charged?

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  21. xRB says:

    stuart22 said:

    for now. I see it taking another several years with a number of starts and stops until BEVs find their foothold that’ll cement their position in the market. The LEAF may fizzle out – but that won’t close down the market for EV’s as long as the Volt’s success builds. Others will be drawn into the market trying to latch on, and at some point there will be an EV that finds the right price point where lasting acceptance happens. My view is that’ll be somewhere between $17K-20K with young first-time buyers a significant chunk of the demand.

    Here’s another possible scenario, which to me seems more immediate and thus more likely. My wife and her many friends make trips of a few miles each day. You might think these are not very important trips, but to them the trips are very important, e.g., one person regularly goes 2 miles to see her mother, spends a couple of hours, and comes home. At the same time, all this group truly and deeply dislikes everything about having to get gas, having to get an oil change, or any other auto maintenance. They like cars that are simple and reliable.

    They understand and are very good at repetitive tasks, so the idea of plugging in seems very simple to them, if somebody else gets it set up. In every case they have enough money to buy whatever kind of car they want. Mostly they have purchased smaller, nice cars. If Nissan (or whoever) can make EVs they appeal to this group, the car, the drivers, and the usage pattern will be a perfect fit.

    I would say the Leaf fits this group perfectly, except that Leaf is a car that for our part of the county seems realistically about 2-3 years away, so at the moment it is only an abstract car, not a real choice. But whoever gets that market first will get a lot of sales, as they like to talk talk talk and then all buy pretty much the same thing.

    Please do not think this group is uninformed. While not much interested in things mechanical, they know EVERYBODY. They will ask the dealer’s mother about Leaf or whatever. Not much gets past them.

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  22. stuart22 says:

    So I’m guessing you’re the type of person who plugs in his cell phone and just stands there and stares at it until it’s fully charged?  

    Pretty lame analogy, Carcus, if you’re thinking a cell phone and an EV are comparable. My cell phone is my only alternative when I’m away from my land lines. And when it needs to be charged, I can still use it wherever it is hooked in – which could be in my car. Or at a distant location.

    And yes – I am not happy if the cell phone battery goes dead as it does from time to time. Minor inconvenience compared to getting stranded on a distant road somewhere if the car battery goes dead.

      (Quote)

  23. Carcus says:

    Pretty lame analogy

    No. A lame analogy would be calling a BEV a high maintenance item. BEV’s are low maintenance. Almost no maintenance. That’s why Mitsubishi is going to sell the iMiev at the equivalent of Best Buy in Japan. ….. cutting the dealership and the associated service shop “cash cow” out of the picture.

    Scary, huh?

    Electronics Stores: The Future Electric Car Showroom?
    http://www.allcarselectric.com/blog/1052620_electronics-stores-the-future-electric-car-showroom

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  24. stuart22 says:

    stuart22 said:
    Here’s another possible scenario, which to me seems more immediate and thus more likely.My wife and her many friends make trips of a few miles each day.You might think these are not very important trips, but to them the trips are very important, e.g., one person regularly goes 2 miles to see her mother, spends a couple of hours, and comes home.At the same time, all this group truly and deeply dislikes everything about having to get gas, having to get an oil change, or any other auto maintenance.They like cars that are simple and reliable.They understand and are very good at repetitive tasks, so the idea of plugging in seems very simple to them, if somebody else gets it set up.In every case they have enough money to buy whatever kind of car they want.Mostly they have purchased smaller, nice cars.If Nissan (or whoever) can makeEVs they appeal to this group, the car, the drivers, and the usage pattern will be a perfect fit.I would say the Leaf fits this group perfectly, except that Leaf is a car that for our part of the county seems realistically about 2-3 years away, so at the moment it is only an abstract car, not a real choice. But whoever gets that market first will get a lot of sales, as they like to talk talk talk and then all buy pretty much the same thing.Please do not think this group is uninformed.While not much interested in things mechanical, they know EVERYBODY.They will ask the dealer’s mother about Leaf or whatever.Not much gets past them.  

    I think you’re making a good point here – electric cars at the beginning were seen as ladies’ cars – today they could be considered ideal second cars focusing on those tasks that require short trips and commutes. But as this kind of second car, the LEAF at $35K (including charger now required by Nissan) is simply too expensive for most families. I’d love for Mitsubishi to hang a price tag on their iMiev that would have its post-tax credit price fall below the $20K level. That would make it hard to pass by as something to consider….

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  25. stuart22 says:

    No.A lame analogy would be calling a BEV a high maintenance item.BEV’s are low maintenance.Almost no maintenance.  

    High maintenance absolutely – BEV’s spend much longer hooked up to a power cord than they spend on the road. And when they are on the road, drivers must be extra mindful their driving patterns and distances will not have them running out of juice.

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  26. Carcus says:

    High maintenance absolutely – BEV’s spend much longer hooked up to a power cord than they spend on the road.And when they are on the road, drivers must be extra mindful their driving patterns and distances will not have them running out of juice.  

    Before I retort this ridiculous BS, ……. just curious… what’s you’re purpose on this forum? How come the Leaf’s got your panties in such a bunch?

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  27. stuart22 says:

    Before I retort this ridiculous BS, ……. just curious… what’s you’re purpose on this forum?How come the Leaf’s got your panties in such a bunch?  

    I’m a Libra. This place needs some balance what with all the Ghosn worshipers and people in denial here, so I’m happy to provide some. The LEAF? I hate its looks…. otherwise I like it and hope it does better than I predict. I don’t criticize the car itself – it’s Ghosn I criticize for his ego driven pandering to the naive EV community with ridiculous statements and predictions. I don’t trust his motives, and what’s happening now with the mysterious delays is not unexpected, I’m sorry to say.

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  28. Carcus says:

    I’m a Libra.This place needs some balance what with all the Ghosn worshipers and people in denial here, so I’m happy to provide some.The LEAF?I hate its looks…. otherwise I like it and hope it does better than I predict.I don’t criticize the car itself – it’s Ghosn I criticize for his ego driven pandering to the naive EV community with ridiculous statements and predictions. I don’t trust his motives, and what’s happening now with the mysterious delays is not unexpected, I’m sorry to say.  

    Hmmm. Sounds complicated.

    Sure you didn’t want to put the name “Kerkorian” in there somewhere?

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  29. DonC says:

    The 50 miles of range is most certainly NOT his message.

    It most certainly IS the message if you’re talking about commuting in CA. I don’t know how much more direct he could be than to say he doesn’t recommend the car for people with more than a 25 mile commute. He’s looking at commuting at 70 MPH. Since that’s the commuting reality I have to deal with that’s his message for me. If I lived in Seattle with two lane interstates and traffic that moved at 55-60 MPH then the reality and his message might be different. But I don’t so they’re not.

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  30. DonC says:

    This place needs some balance what with all the Ghosn worshipers and people in denial here,

    You have to admit that Ghosn appears to be the only auto executive with a vision. When you’re competing with the likes of Ed Whitacre you don’t need to be a genius.

    Rather than people being in denial I’d say their optimism tank runs high. If you go back and real Oliver’s posts before he got the car he was very optimistic about the range.

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  31. Future Leaf Driver says:

    Van – Still a good deal all things considered, clean air and less terrorist funding/motivation.

    One of the main reasons to purchase an EV!!!

    GO EV!!! GO “NO TERRORIST FUNDING” PURE EV LEAF!!!

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  32. xRB says:

    But as this kind of second car, the LEAF at $35K (including charger now required by Nissan) is simply too expensive for most families.

    On the other hand, it is well within the range of many other families, far more buyers than there are cars to buy. Maybe someday that won’t be the case, and maybe the cars will be cheaper then.

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  33. xRB says:

    Today the house passed the “all EVs must be noisy” act. As it already has been passed by the Senate, all that remains is the president’s signature, which is expected soon. It”s passage has been advocated by the organization for the blind and by automakers, the latter likely seeing it as a legal defense that does not lose them points in relation to other manufacturers. It does undercut one of the nicer EV features, however.

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  34. Jobbeur says:

    I’m a Libra.This place needs some balance what with all the Ghosn worshipers and people in denial here, so I’m happy to provide some.The LEAF?I hate its looks…. otherwise I like it and hope it does better than I predict.I don’t criticize the car itself – it’s Ghosn I criticize for his ego driven pandering to the naive EV community with ridiculous statements and predictions. I don’t trust his motives, and what’s happening now with the mysterious delays is not unexpected, I’m sorry to say.  

    I don’t think a lot of Ghosn worshipers logon this site. He has some balls and we like that. The Leaf is a good step forward in the automotive market. Like DonC said, we are optimist! Most of the time we like to discuss about fact and we tell our opinions. Its is good to hear others point of view, but a constant negative (or criticism) poster is sad on a forum, some people don’t make the difference between critics and troll. It’s interesting to debate, but it’s no more interesting when people get into close minded opinions, without supporting facts.

    By the way, ever try to post a question or critic on the Volt forum? You get down voted and everybody yells at you. THAT’s worshiping/fanboyism. I don’t go to Lyle’s site since all you hear is “THE VOLT IS FREAKING!”/$%?&*( AWSOME!!!!!”. It used to be a very interesting forum with a lot of debates.

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  35. Future Leaf Driver says:

    Unlike BEVs, a Volt does not require a driver to make adjustments to one’s driving habits and driving patterns.  (Quote)

    Correct, the Volt only requires the driver to have $41,000.00 plus tax, etc – and still purchase gas! If someone has that kind of money, doesn’t mind putting up with the 4 different fluids changes that the Volt needs to function, plus all the still unknown service needs AND suffers from range anxiety, then they should buy that. Go post that on the other site, or let’s us know when the Volt’s at $30K and mass produced!.

    GO EV!!! GO AFFORDABLE PURE EV LEAF!!!!

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  36. Future Leaf Driver says:

    I don’t think a lot of Ghosn worshipers logon this site. He has some balls and we like that. The Leaf is a good step forward in the automotive market. Like DonC said, we are optimist! Most of the time we like to discuss about fact and we tell our opinions. Its is good to hear others point of view, but a constant negative (or criticism) poster is sad on a forum, some people don’t make the difference between critics and troll. It’s interesting to debate, but it’s no more interesting when people get into close minded opinions, without supporting facts.By the way, ever try to post a question or critic on the Volt forum? You get down voted and everybody yells at you. THAT’s worshiping/fanboyism. I don’t go to Lyle’s site since all you hear is “THE VOLT IS FREAKING!”/$%?&*( AWSOME!!!!!”. It used to be a very interesting forum with a lot of debates.  (Quote)

    True that ! Once Lyle’s site jumped the shark and became a fanboy site, you CAN’T post anything there without getting -1 or attacted to death. You make a comment on the 4 different fluids required to run the Volt/Tank and look out! -1s!!!!

    That’s why I don’t bother posting anything there. There’s no point, unless you believe that the Volt is udder perfection and we that we should all believe that ER-EV are the future for the next 10 years or so, since batteries will NEVER approve in the next few years to have ranges over 200 miles ;-)

    Certain people who post negative comments here regarding any EV that they don’t EVEN OWN are known as trolls on Lyle’s site. Too bad certain peope can’t see the benefits of PURE EV drive, but must constantly ramp down reader’s throats that only one car can meet all people needs — just go away troll! No one buying your BS here!

    GO EV!!! GO MOST AFFORDABLE PURE EV LEAF!!!!

      (Quote)

  37. DonC says:

    If someone has that kind of money, doesn’t mind putting up with the 4 different fluids changes that the Volt needs to function,

    This is actually interesting since it raises the same issues as the “I’ll never use any gasoline” idea. First, your point is valid. The Leaf will need less maintenance than the Volt. No question. The lack of maintenance is one of the things you have to love about the Leaf. However, most people won’t be able to use the Leaf for all their driving needs so they’ll also have an ICE vehicle. That vehicle will need all those fluids changed, and more, and more often.

    It’s more complicated than you’re making it out to be since even if you don’t have a hybrid car you have a hybrid system.

      (Quote)

  38. DonC says:

    He has some balls and we like that.

    Yes. He does and we do. But some of this is calculated. Realistically Nissan can’t stay where it is — the fifth of sixth player in the market. It will be caught between the bigger companies and the expanding Koreans. So Nissan can’t afford to stay conservative. It needs to find either geographic or technological markets to dominate.

    Now it’s true that most CEOs would just sit there and hope things worked out, death by a thousand cuts. To his credit Ghosn is making a move. He may be wrong but he has a strategic vision. You have to give him credit for acting when most people would try to hang on to the status quo. But he’s not a gambler trying to stay afloat at the tables. His gamble is well thought out.

      (Quote)

  39. stuart22 says:

      

    Who people see as a visionary, I see as a businessman with a big ego who in the end will pull the plug if he thinks he should. And I think he will.

    If there is a visionary, it’s Bob Lutz who saw the Volt as the success that the EV1 never could be. He’s a businessman too – the idea behind the Volt was to vault GM back into industry prominence – but where Ghosn was all about big promises and working the media, Lutz and GM were focused upon creating a masterpiece of engineered art, with unprecedented transparency as the process moved through the various stages.

      (Quote)

  40. Carcus says:

    Now it’s true that most CEOs would just sit there and hope things worked out, death by a thousand cuts.

    Yeah, like Wagoner.

    Yes. He does and we do. But some of this is calculated. Realistically Nissan can’t stay where it is — the fifth of sixth player in the market. It will be caught between the bigger companies and the expanding Koreans. So Nissan can’t afford to stay conservative. It needs to find either geographic or technological markets to dominate.Now it’s true that most CEOs would just sit there and hope things worked out, death by a thousand cuts. To his credit Ghosn is making a move. He may be wrong but he has a strategic vision. You have to give him credit for acting when most people would try to hang on to the status quo. But he’s not a gambler trying to stay afloat at the tables. His gamble is well thought out.  

    It’s possible that the “freedom drive” is a prime example of how GM wants you to think vs. what may be the new reality of high oil prices and cheap batteries. It may be that 150 mile-ish BEV’s are the real end-game of car 2.0. The idea of lots of long distance interstate travel in your own car as being “American” is in a lot of ways a made up urban myth. It was put together by the people that wanted to sell you highways, big cars, and fuel back in the 50′s and 60′s. Prior to that time long distance travel was not that common and wasn’t handled by cars. In the big scheme of things it’s a fairly recent commercial enterprise.

    Truth be told, most people hate long road trips on the interstate highways. You can see it in their faces.

      (Quote)

  41. John R says:

    It’s mynissanleaf.com, not mynissanlead.com – where’s a good editor when you need one???

      (Quote)

  42. Olivier Chalouhi says:

    @Sharon, my day-to-day car is my LEAF. I don’t have an other car.
    @Jimza, I’ve never said that I’m going to use my wife’s car extensively. I’ve always said :
    When I go on vacation / extended WE, I either fly somewhere, if it’s more than a few hundreds miles away, and rent a car there –and this is my past behavior, it has nothing to do with the LEAF — or we drive a couple hundred miles to places like Tahoe. All in all, that happens maybe 3-4 times a year. IF my wife didn’t have an ICE car, I would rent one for these occasions, and I would still be saving a lot of money overall. We’ll use my wife’s car for these 3-4 times a year where we go further than what the LEAF can do.

    @All. Regarding the range, I ran a test on the highway at 75mph for 10 miles, which lead to an overall range at that speed of 69 miles. I’ve owned the car for 6 days … and tonight when I get home I will have driven about 325 miles, so about 54 miles / day.

      (Quote)

  43. Carcus says:

    Olivier,

    Thanks for stopping in.

    We are anxious for information as the Leaf hits the streets, but I hope all the attention doesn’t take away from the enjoyment of your new electric car.

      (Quote)

  44. Carcus says:

    DonC,

    IN YOUR FACE!!!! IN YOUR FACE!!!!!!!

    lol (I kill myself sometimes)

      (Quote)

  45. Future Leaf Driver says:

    This is actually interesting since it raises the same issues as the “I’ll never use any gasoline” idea. First, your point is valid. The Leaf will need less maintenance than the Volt. No question. The lack of maintenance is one of the things you have to love about the Leaf. However, most people won’t be able to use the Leaf for all their driving needs so they’ll also have an ICE vehicle. That vehicle will need all those fluids changed, and more, and more often.It’s more complicated than you’re making it out to be since even if you don’t have a hybrid car you have a hybrid system.  (Quote)

    Valid point Don – “most people won’t be able to use the LEAF for all their driving needs”, but some will. :-) For the two times a year that I travel beyond the ~ 100 mile range, I’ll just rent/borrow a regular gas car. Much cheaper than insuring & maintaining a second car. Gee, I wonder how many others are in the same situation as myself? Hmm? Thus the comparisons, one requires 4 fluids, the other less….

    GO EV!!! GO “EXTREMELY LOW MAINTENANCE” PURE EV LEAF!!!!

      (Quote)

  46. Future Leaf Driver says:

    Yeah, like Wagoner.It’s possible that the “freedom drive” is a prime example of how GM wants you to think vs. what may be the new reality of high oil prices and cheap batteries. It may be that 150 mile-ish BEV’s are the real end-game of car 2.0. The idea of lots of long distance interstate travel in your own car as being “American” is in a lot of ways a made up urban myth. It was put together by the people that wanted to sell you highways, big cars, and fuel back in the 50′s and 60′s. Prior to that time long distance travel was not that common and wasn’t handled by cars. In the big scheme of things it’s a fairly recent commercial enterprise.Truth be told, most people hate long road trips on the interstate highways. You can see it in their faces.  (Quote)

    Bang on Carcus – talk to everyone in the office today and everyone’s headed out in a few days on Xmas vacation (all within driving distances) but guess what, nobody’s driving anywhere?? Everyone’s FLYING or taking the TRAIN. Gee, whatever happened to those long interstate road trips that everyone says you need a gas car for??? Oh, maybe those only happen in the summer, LOL!!!

    Loved the “IN YOUR FACE!!!! IN YOUR FACE!!!!!!!” comment, LOLOL!!

    GO EV!!! GO “PRACTICAL RANGE / NON-POLLUTING” PURE EV LEAF!!!!

      (Quote)

  47. demetrius says:

    @Olivier

    Why don’t you put that Leaf on eBay? Hasn’t anyone asked for you to sell it?

      (Quote)

  48. Future Leaf Driver says:

    Olivier

    Thanks for reporting back your experiences, Olivier. Looking forward to the day when I’ll be posting mine!!!

    BTW, was climate control set to ECO or normal during the highway test?

    GO EV!!! GO “Electric cars are by FAR superior” PURE EV LEAF!!!!

      (Quote)

  49. TRONZ says:

    Actually Stuart22 you and your friends have never answered any ones questions regarding why you spend each day Trolling at a LEAF fan site. Delusional??? I see above 9 long babbling posts from your screen name alone. Do you actually think Ghosn and the other very important people in your little hate speaches actually care about your opinions??? At best, you think they do which makes you the delusional one. At worst, you know they don’t care… and that just makes you creepy! :)

      (Quote)

  50. DonC says:

    IN YOUR FACE!!!! IN YOUR FACE!!!!!!!

    If it’s important to you to think you were right then fine, you were right. But the fact is that you said the range 90 miles. I said he’s saying it’s 50 miles. And he is saying it’s 50 miles.

    There is technical range and then there is real human range. The person driving the car has to be comfortable. They are not going to drive the car until it stops, which means they need a buffer. What is this buffer? That’s a great question, but intuition and some empirical studies suggest for the vast majority of people it will be between 1/2 and 2/3rds of the technical range. The main point here is that you have to be clear in your mind which range you are referring to — human or technical. He’s saying he can get maybe 69 miles sans climate control. Put in a buffer of 25%, which is on the high side of tolerance, and you’re at 50 miles. (No doubt he could blast the heater and get 55 miles, would that make you wrong?).

    IOW I think he’s being human and his estimate of the range as being 50 miles is spot on.

      (Quote)

  51. DonC says:

    IN YOUR FACE!!!! IN YOUR FACE!!!!!!!

    Huh? He has said and is saying the range is 50 miles. How you construe this as vindicating your claim that the range is 90 miles is beyond me.

      (Quote)

  52. DonC says:

    Sorry Carcus, I thought I had deleted the first post. Thought it was too heavy for the end of a thread.

      (Quote)

  53. xRB says:

    Realistically Nissan can’t stay where it is — the fifth of sixth player in the market. It will be caught between the bigger companies and the expanding Koreans. So Nissan can’t afford to stay conservative. It needs to find either geographic or technological markets to dominate.
    Now it’s true that most CEOs would just sit there and hope things worked out, death by a thousand cuts. To his credit Ghosn is making a move. He may be wrong but he has a strategic vision. You have to give him credit for acting when most people would try to hang on to the status quo. But he’s not a gambler trying to stay afloat at the tables. His gamble is well thought out.

    .
    Yes, to his credit Ghosn is making a move, a daring one.

      (Quote)

  54. Herm says:

    http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1976

    The old topic of usable capacity got revisited.. someone actually heard a Nissan bigwig say the usable capacity is 24kw, and “no comment” with a grin when asked about actual capacity. Also mentioned that the LEAF wont let you access the bottom 10% and the top 10% of the capacity.. So it seems the total actual capacity is 30kwh. Big News..

      (Quote)

  55. Carcus says:

    http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1976The old topic of usable capacity got revisited.. someone actually heard a Nissan bigwig say the usable capacity is 24kw, and “no comment” with a grin when asked about actual capacity. Also mentioned that the LEAF wont let you access the bottom 10% and the top 10% of the capacity.. So it seems the total actual capacity is 30kwh. Big News..  

    Hey Herm,

    That would be big news. Do you know what page of the thread you linked the “big-wig” conversation is in?

      (Quote)

  56. Herm says:

    near the end..

      (Quote)

  57. Herm says:

    Sorry, page 4 by AndyH ..

      (Quote)

  58. Carcus says:

    Ok. Thanks Herm.

    That’s actually a re-post from planet4ever that was originally put up July 28, 2010. So, it’s not really a new “rumor”.

    I still have yet to find where a Nissan rep or piece of Nissan documentation point blank answers the “usable capacity vs. total capacity” question about the Leaf’s battery. So to me the question is still on the table.

      (Quote)

  59. JEff says:

    Regretably, you’ve yet to be successful! :-O

    lol (I kill myself sometimes)  

      (Quote)

  60. Fuelzilla says:

    I do understand the range anxiety that Olivier is describing, but it is not new or limited to EV only. I do remember having a feeling of the sort when I was just starting to drive my first Prius which has only 11 gallon tank (yet I could under no circumstances put more than 9 gallons in it). It just takes getting used to and planning the trip. Since then I’ve taken the Prius on 2000+ miles trips and never got stranded.

    That said, LEAF was never intended for long trips anyway. If not for the price, it would have been a perfect car for high school students driving themselves to school and back. We live very far from school and my kid gets something like 16 miles school round-trip every day plus whatever after school activities there are and so 25 miles / day radius would have been just fine.

      (Quote)

  61. We had a weather issue here in Virginia last week that doesn’t happen often but enough to be a consideration.

    My wife was stuck in traffic, very unexpectedly, so bad that her 18 mile drive took her hours and there was no options for exits or back-tracking.

    This happen in Winter with freezing weather so the heat was needed, no option. But could have happened in 100 degree summer where cooling would be needed. It was night so lights were required.

    Yes, some cars ran out of gas because the owners didn’t prepare. But if an owner of a Leaf and an owner of a Volt did fully prepare, full charge, full tank then the Volt would make it home and the Leaf would not.

    The Leaf can not be an option for my wife. The Volt, maybe yes.

      (Quote)

  62. Ian James says:

    Stories about the 2 or 3 people who have actually received their Nissan LEAF are now getting to be very annoying. The time to build excitement around this new car is long gone. What I want now, is a DELIVERY DATE. I reserved mine over 6 months ago and I have been strung along with meaningless updates and vague or empty promises. Nissan: you have to be transparent and tell us REALISTIC delivery dates. Be honest with us – if you have production problems, please come clean. Just posting my reservation status as “Pending” and telling me my dealer will contact me (at some unspecified time) is no good. You are seriously pissing off your potential customers. We have been your ardent supporters, and deserve to know the truth.

      (Quote)

  63. David says:

    As an active cyclist I am a bit concerned about the ability of EVs to “sneak up” on cyclists. Our ears are a bigger part of our senses when it comes to riding safely. It is one of the first things I taught my children when learning to ride on open roads…..”Listen, you can hear the cars”! EV owners should be made well aware of this situation and maybe give a friendly beep!

      (Quote)

  64. 1-ev.com says:

    WE ALL SHOULD CONSIDER TO – GO GREEN!!! VIVA NISSAN to start the revolution!!!

      (Quote)

  65. 1-ev.com says:

    I’ve just finished a test drive, see my BLOG here 1-ev.com and it looks like we are getting to the point where we are start to express an interest in the ELECTRIC CARS !!!

      (Quote)

  66. Hal says:

    I commuted to work on an electric scooter for about two years. (Work from home now.) Its range was only about 12 miles and the commute was 6 miles each way. However, I could plug into a normal 110V receptacle at work and have a full battery when I headed home. I forgot to plug in at work a time or two and barely made it home, but I knew its range and worked within those limitations. I NEVER had to go to a gas station. All I had to do was plug it in and air the tires once in a while. I knew enough not to take off on a 20 mile trip knowing it had only a 12 mile range. As others have said, the EV has a lot of advantages, including little or no routine maintenance and no Gas station trips. (I am a little worried about how the car dealers intend to recoup the money they will lose on all the ICE maintenance). I agree with those who question the $35k price tag for a second or third vehicle good only for commuting. We need a BEV for commuting and short trips to the store in the $10-15k vicinity. 50 mile driving range, 75mph top speed in case you need to get on the freeway. Maybe the size of a SMART car.

      (Quote)

  67. Al says:

    I hope that Nissan comes out with a long range version of the Leaf soon. I currently drive 140 miles round trip to and from work with no ability to charge at work. Add extra mileage for lunch trips and my constant use of the air conditioner will put a minimum requirement of a 200-mile range.

      (Quote)

  68. Craig W. says:

    This is the first time logging in here and I noticed most of the comments are 1.5 months old, but the comments seem the same. I was on the order list for the Leaf, but got on the list for the Tesla Model S instead. However, many of the comments here are valuable to me because they involve how to use an EV.

    Since most customers will currently be a 2 car family I really don’t see much problem with the 2nd car being an EV. Much of what was being discussed presumed the car would be the only vehicle in the household. As a second car, I see most people being very interested in the EV. This would seem to be the way to adapt to an EV exclusive household in the future.

    If this is going to be your only car, then many comments become much more important as your flexibility will be compromised. However, if 80% of your driving fits the profile for an EV, then it still may be a net plus for you.

      (Quote)

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  70. DaveB says:

    The whole story seems like a nice marketing ploy by Renault/Nissan, however, they should hire marketers who know cars. There is no Ford Fit in Ford’s line up. Honda makes the Fit.

    Quote:

    “Chalouhi compared the vehicle to his wife’s Ford Fit, stating that the LEAF is more comfortable, better equipped and is much more silent.”I also think that you have a lower perception of speed in the LEAF(ie, 40 mph feels slow in the LEAF given lack of noise, and it’s a bigger car),” Olivier writes. “After 70mph, I’d have to compare the 2 for real. Intuition tells me that the fit accelerates slower, but I could be wrong.”

      (Quote)

  71. Mike says:

    How well, will this car do in the snow, or ice. This is only going to be a car that can be driven only on flat land and in very Sunny places, so Alaska, Minnesota, and places like that this car will not work. This car is a big joke anyway.

      (Quote)

  72. Jim says:

    When I heard about the EV Leaf, I was interested. But given the range, it was a no sale.

    90 mile a day commute in a Northern climate won’t cut it.

    Ended up with a slightly used Pontiac G5 XFE that gets 40 mpg on the freeway.

    I know its not electric, but I know if I keep the tank full, I won’t be pushing it home.

      (Quote)

  73. John says:

    Where does Oliver live?

      (Quote)

  74. curt says:

    I’m anxiously waiting for my Leaf. For the long trips I use my Harley or rent. The Leaf is a great car for my needs (errand vehicle). Those few days in the year when it rains I’ll do my 108 mile roundtrip commute to work with the Leaf (I can charge at work) and SCE has free charging off the 210 in Irvine, so no range issue for me. Now if only April would get here sooner :-)

      (Quote)

  75. Beezy says:

    Whats a Ford Fit?

      (Quote)

  76. JF says:

    How will this “Leaf” do in winter weather such as ice, snow & cold?
    How is it when it gets started in the cold ? How’s it’s power 7 range in the cold, such as in VA.

      (Quote)

  77. Owen says:

    The vast majority of people I know and work with have two cars. I generally have a 40 mile round trip commute. On the days that I have to travel 50 or 60 miles round trip I switch cars with my wife. Her driving range is roughly ten to twenty miles chauffeuring the kids around. No big deal. The Leaf works very well for my family!

      (Quote)

  78. Hal says:

    My Leaf will deliver in a week. This will be a great new experience. They are starting to install chargers in key destinations points. So I think the electric car will be very successful here in Portland. If you want to go to Mt Hood or the coast, you will have a great ride and can recharge while having lunch. Super.

      (Quote)

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  80. Chris says:

    Hi all,

    As a former Prius & Prius plug-in owner, and new LEAF owner, I would like to share my driving experience with you:

    http://myelifenow.blogspot.com

    Regards,
    Christophe

      (Quote)

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